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  1. Enech is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/24/2006 3:20pm


     Style: CQB/CQC Todd Lineage.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by I Choke You
    Yes, but what WILL happen if you aren't a fool is, you will FALL instead of letting your leg break.


    It can, but if you stop after you hit'em a couple times, they're usually OK. It's when you KO somebody, THEN hit them that you end up with problems, in my experience.



    I can attest to that. I like palm strikes for that reason. I knew it was true that hands break easier, but then my hand actually broke and I knew.

    Ok the issue with the knee is not going to be resolved here so I will not try.

    AND as for the neck... no the blow can damage the nerve, and that is never a good thing. WE do not even SIMULATE a blow to the back of the kneck. In a real life situation however if my life was on the line ... stiff **** for the idiot trying to hurt me, he can deal with the consiquences.

    As for the hand. Bareknuckle fighting is a "lost art" in that every one makes a boxers fist and wonders WHY it hurts.

    CQB is all about "Dirty tricks" and distractions. It is not pretty (not even close) but it IS effective. I guess that is why I took it up. During my days as a bouncer I saw too many of my coworkers with belts in this or that "art" get theier arse handed to them. While those of us who just got the job done (ie talked our way out of the situation OR used our heads) usually (not always) walked away in one piece. Hells I have more injuries from something called "Pacifist warfare" than I do from bounding or CQB class/phase tests, hmmm or from my lab (I am a Chemsit these days) for that matter (11 stiches from glass this last year), and thats nor bragging as I was pissed at every single stitch (not as annoyed as my boss I bet)
  2. Enech is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/24/2006 3:25pm


     Style: CQB/CQC Todd Lineage.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KageKaze
    That a pretty shitty Ninjutsu guy then. Rolling is a great and fast way to evade, but rule one is never end up facing away from your opponent. But then again, 5th Dan in Bujinkan (he was probably a Bujinkan) equals about 3 years of training a few times a week. There are like a few thousand Bujinkan 5th dans., and most of them suck ass.

    I can't tell you about that. The allure of the samurai or the ninja never bit me. All I know is he got KO'd by a seven foot tall 300lb Rugby Lock. So he obviously did not have time to say "Ninja Vanish" before he got a Pugil stick in the skull.
  3. Mr. Mantis is offline
    Mr. Mantis's Avatar

    One Ambulance, Eleven Cops...

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    Posted On:
    1/24/2006 3:28pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Enech
    AND as for the neck... no the blow can damage the nerve, and that is never a good thing. WE do not even SIMULATE a blow to the back of the kneck. In a real life situation however if my life was on the line ... stiff **** for the idiot trying to hurt me, he can deal with the consiquences.
    Do you find it easy to get there? I have the darndest time trying to get someone's back. How do you get to this main target?
    “We are surrounded by warships and don’t have time to talk. Please pray for us.” — One Somali Pirate.
  4. Enech is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/24/2006 3:33pm


     Style: CQB/CQC Todd Lineage.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Mantis
    Do you find it easy to get there? I have the darndest time trying to get someone's back. How do you get to this main target?

    It depends. The way it works is you try to "decentralize" (pretty term for knock them on their arse) with a blow to the knee (various styles) once they are down you stomp on them a few times till they stop moving (ankle, head, or even a bronco stomp if you feel adventurous) Obviously this is simulated in practice. IF that fails (ie they evade, or you screw up) and you have closer options, the knife edge of the hand to the neck, the palm strike to face, or the elbow to the head. IF that fails the MAIN weapon is the swivel/palm strike to the chin/head. Now lets say that all screwed up, you can still wrap them up close, axe kick their knees to the stone age OR depending on the position (loose or tight wrap) their neck might be exposed.
  5. FictionPimp is offline

    Sexiest Punching Bag Alive

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    Posted On:
    1/24/2006 3:55pm


     Style: BJJ/Judo/Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It sounds like you test hard, can you give an example of what a standard class is like?

    How much of it is drilling and how much is sparing. What kinds of sparing and what gear is required. Also what rules are in place during sparing. Just general info please :-)
  6. Tom Kagan is offline
    Tom Kagan's Avatar

    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    1/24/2006 4:08pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Enech
    AND as for the neck... no the blow can damage the nerve, and that is never a good thing. WE do not even SIMULATE a blow to the back of the kneck. In a real life situation however if my life was on the line ... stiff **** for the idiot trying to hurt me, he can deal with the consiquences.

    Not that it will make a difference to you, but, personally, I don't think that "a real life situation" is the best place you want to go about trying to figure out how to do something you haven't even SIMULATED before.
  7. Enech is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/24/2006 4:17pm


     Style: CQB/CQC Todd Lineage.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by FictionPimp
    It sounds like you test hard, can you give an example of what a standard class is like?

    How much of it is drilling and how much is sparing. What kinds of sparing and what gear is required. Also what rules are in place during sparing. Just general info please :-)

    Ok lets go backwards.

    Rules: Respect a fellow student and don't be dangerous (or you will be thrown out). Usually go at low powers so if some one screws up you will not maim them.

    Gear? You wear street/gym clothing and GOOD footwear (I wore Nike boots, as they gave me good stabilization and movement).

    A class usually begins (at phase one) with 20 to 30 min of kicking the **** out of a tire (that is how we practice our kicks, a tire with a handle that you hit as hard and fast as you can). This then will progress to something else. After an hour you will move into Milling (aka PSaring) with a partner (changed every 10 min) and follow a drill.

    Then once every one is nice and tired some more complicated stuff is done. Knife evasions/disarms. Long weapon evasions/disarms. Grappling techniques. The Gauntlet or a boot party etc. Once in a while those of us who wanted to got to do something called the "mad minute" where a circuit was set up with tires and other padded items, and you go full power full speed around and around for at least a minute. One trained had me going 5 minutes just to see my breaking point (about 4 minutes but made me keep going).

    That is a typical class at phase one. You also once in a while get a psycological class, or a chance to taste phase two.

    We train very hard but test so hard it's not funny. For long range knife attacks a real and sharp knife is used in testing (and training eventually) a rubber one is always used for the close knife work (too easy for either party to screw up).

    That help?
  8. Enech is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/24/2006 4:19pm


     Style: CQB/CQC Todd Lineage.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kagan
    Not that it will make a difference to you, but, personally, I don't think that "a real life situation" is the best place you want to go about trying to figure out how to do something you haven't even SIMULATED before.

    However the class/course gives you plenty of alternatives, further it is not to hard to hit someone in the back of the neck (or front of it) if it is exposed. Being aware of a danger is better than blind ignorance IMHO.
  9. bwerb is offline

    Canuckistanian Refugee

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    Posted On:
    1/24/2006 5:06pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, JKD Concepts, Kali

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Please explain your long distance live blade training...with the number of injuries you have indicated occur during training...I'm a tad concerned about things progressing to serious permanant injury.

    I do believe that we can learn from nearly any instructor and that we should be open to having our viewpoints expanded, alarm bells just tend to go off when I hear about level tests which result in broken bones (and that this is somewhat presented as a "badge of honor" or demonstration of how tough training is.) I like the philosophy in our gym and as expressed by the Dog Brothers (poorly paraphrased) that we are (in our training) all on the same team/tribe and that seriously wounding/injuring our members makes the team/tribe weaker.
    The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function.
    ~F. Scott Fitzgerald

    Whether it is a good thing or a bad thing, smashing things up is sometimes very pleasant.
    ~Fyodor Dostoyevsky
  10. Enech is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/24/2006 5:14pm


     Style: CQB/CQC Todd Lineage.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bwerb
    Please explain your long distance live blade training...with the number of injuries you have indicated occur during training...I'm a tad concerned about things progressing to serious permanant injury.

    I do believe that we can learn from nearly any instructor and that we should be open to having our viewpoints expanded, alarm bells just tend to go off when I hear about level tests which result in broken bones (and that this is somewhat presented as a "badge of honor" or demonstration of how tough training is.) I like the philosophy in our gym and as expressed by the Dog Brothers (poorly paraphrased) that we are (in our training) all on the same team/tribe and that seriously wounding/injuring our members makes the team/tribe weaker.

    Ok we train with real blades simply because people after a time thing “ahh it’s a rubber knife” SO in the long range attacks (axe pick, slash, thrust etc) the way we deal with an attack (knife real or not) is as follows. Sidestep away from direction of travel at the last possible moment. Ending up perpendicular to the arm holding the knife. Then (a) Try to chop the forearm on the radial nerve to make it be dropped, in the likely event (I get it right 3 out of 10 times and get it dropped) that this fails (b) Apply the opposing forces grip to the wrist (Thus reducing mobility of the knife), apply an axe kick to the knee causing the knife wielder to be decentralized, and stomp on them (in training much of this simulated). I’ve not seen ONE person get cut with the real knives. We do not use it in closer situations as they often involve the knife being held to the neck, and sometimes people get “twitchy”.

    To be honest we test as if it were the real deal. As I said this is NOT a martial art. Thus we are tested as closely to real life situations as one can, and an at an exacting level (there are 4 or 5 areas you are tested at, at phase one and you HAVE to get 4 out of 5 in 4 of them, anything bellow 3 in the last one will fail you).

    Slan

    Enech
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