Intro and a chance for you all to wade in!

**Enech** · Posted On: 1/24/2006 1:30pm

Originally Posted by BackFistMonkey

Fixed that for you buddy .

"Why thank you sir" the engkish language is such a wonderful thing ;)

**Enech** · Posted On: 1/24/2006 1:33pm

Originally Posted by FictionPimp

This might come as a surprise, but every single time you do any body contact sports/martial arts at all you run that risk. Basketball, Football, Wrestling, MMA, even point sparing TKD ata guys. Hell, I've seen guys break their wrist in aikido because of an over confident all knowing newbie put on a wristlock to fast and too hard on another newbie. I know a judo guy who broke his spine and was in traction after a bad fall (he did this a few years before I started judo and was just comming back as I started).

I dont claim to know your martial art. I dont claim that you have to compete to fight. But I do claim that you have to fight to fight, and that means fighting as close to all out street brawling as possible and still being able to go to work tomarrow. As long as you are doing that, then you are learning how to fight.

True and I thought I had acknowledged this (or not I am a bit short on sleep today). However ttwo of the major "targets" in the Todd system are the knee (easy to break) and the back of the kneck (easy to kill). We use "padding" for practice and phase tests, but injuries happen. I had a badly hyper extended knee thanks to a fool who was a Karate black belt and snapped a kick during practice (rather than padded down). Luckily my joints (despite being in my 30's) are loose and it just hurt like hell!

**Enech** · Posted On: 1/24/2006 1:37pm

Originally Posted by Ronin.74

I think he trains CQB (Close Quarters Battle). It is fight system that has a major training camp in New Zealand. A friend of mine who is a pro fighter went to NZ and attended one of their intensive camps. He gave it a rave review and has since become a rep of the system. He stated that it was not unusual for people to leave sessions with broken noses or worse,(one guy had to be taken to the hospital with a broken arm).

Since I personally don't have any experience with the system I can't say for sure what it is exactly, I would guess that it is a system for training professional bodyguards with a heavy emphasis on hand-to-hand combat.

Yes indeed it is CQB. Tank (Geoff Todd) is the master cheif instructor. Like all martial arts and fighting systems there is of course pissing matches between various schools. SOme US practitioners (who would rather shoot a gun than get up close and personal) do not believe his credentials (after all how could someone from a small country be trained that indepth?) this leads to bad blood and insult flinging. As I said not that different from martial arts I guess.

Phase tests are hard core. A friend of mine (female .... we all test with each other) left with 2 broken rinbs, a cracked shin and more bruises than when I got run over by a mini). I left with a hyper extended knee, a chipped tooth, and a mild concussion. I came of easy.

**Enech** · Posted On: 1/24/2006 1:39pm

Originally Posted by Tom Kagan

I thought it was obvious he LARPs a bunch of stuff "too deadly" to practice properly. :smile:

HA nice try.

**Roidie McDouchebag** · Posted On: 1/24/2006 1:50pm

However ttwo of the major "targets" in the Todd system are the knee (easy to break) and the back of the kneck (easy to kill).

Not really. When I get kicked in the knee, worst case scenario, I fall, it hasn't broken yet.

I've seen and participated in hitting people as hard as possible with a fist in the back of the head, I've yet to kill anyone.

But MA for military applications are not self defence, they're self offence. You're planning on having the element of surprise, which you never have in a sparring match. So, yes, it would be dangerous to practice hitting people who were not ready for it.

**Rubberduck** · Posted On: 1/24/2006 2:01pm

Why do these CQB-types have to brag about their injuries? What good is a soldier who is out of service. :confused1

**Enech** · Posted On: 1/24/2006 2:02pm

Originally Posted by I Choke You

Not really. When I get kicked in the knee, worst case scenario, I fall, it hasn't broken yet.

I've seen and participated in hitting people as hard as possible with a fist in the back of the head, I've yet to kill anyone.

But MA for military applications are not self defence, they're self offence. You're planning on having the element of surprise, which you never have in a sparring match. So, yes, it would be dangerous to practice hitting people who were not ready for it.

A poorly timed blow to the knee WILL damage it. It does not take many pounds per square inch to screw that joint over!

Similarly a blow to the neck can cause bleeding or nerve damage that can lead to paralysis or death! I saw it go wrong in a phase test and the person hurt spent several weeks in hospital. We also never use closed fist (knife edge strike, palm strike or elbow strike) as the hand breaks easier than those three options.

**Enech** · Posted On: 1/24/2006 2:06pm

Originally Posted by Rubberduck

Why do these CQB-types have to brag about their injuries? What good is a soldier who is out of service. :confused1

I still walked out of class that night. I am not a soldier either, it wa a civilian course.

**Roidie McDouchebag** · Posted On: 1/24/2006 2:13pm

A poorly timed blow to the knee WILL damage it. It does not take many pounds per square inch to screw that joint over!

Yes, but what WILL happen if you aren't a fool is, you will FALL instead of letting your leg break.

Similarly a blow to the neck can cause bleeding or nerve damage that can lead to paralysis or death! I saw it go wrong in a phase test and the person hurt spent several weeks in hospital.

It can, but if you stop after you hit'em a couple times, they're usually OK. It's when you KO somebody, THEN hit them that you end up with problems, in my experience.

We also never use closed fist (knife edge strike, palm strike or elbow strike) as the hand breaks easier than those three options.

I can attest to that. I like palm strikes for that reason. I knew it was true that hands break easier, but then my hand actually broke and I knew.

***Plasma*** · Posted On: 1/24/2006 2:18pm

Originally Posted by Enech

I’ve seen a number of highly trained martial artists fail the phase tests at the school, possibly due to them employing techniques from their martial arts back ground. As an example: we had a 5th dan black belt in “Ninjitsu” come to the week long “intesnitve extensive” course. He refused to stop doing rolls to avoid contact. During Pugil stick testing at the end of the course he did a wonderful rolling evasion, but left him self (a) facing away from his opponent, and (b) unable to use the pugil stick. His opponent (a LARGE rugby player (Rugby can be seen as a martial art by some ;) ) cracked him on the head with the pugil stick (safety gear was worn, the only place we use it) and knocked him out.]

That a pretty shitty Ninjutsu guy then. Rolling is a great and fast way to evade, but rule one is never end up facing away from your opponent. But then again, 5th Dan in Bujinkan (he was probably a Bujinkan) equals about 3 years of training a few times a week. There are like a few thousand Bujinkan 5th dans., and most of them suck ass.