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  1. Phrost is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/25/2006 6:17pm

    Business Class Supporting Memberstaff
     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you want to LARP a feudal Japanese spy, then go LARP one in the park with your buddies. Just don't pretend you're learning how to fight.
  2. Spunky is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/25/2006 10:44pm


     Style: Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thats good to hear since HIBUKI and deceptive tactics was a normal part of almost all JJ schools. (Imagine Don Cunningham as a ninja master!!! )
    I would only assume as much :smile:

    And what would that strategy be? If its simply a way to strike another person down thats not ninjutsu thats henka of that technique. If its to arouse suspistions, insight chaos, etc then yes.
    In the context of a melee, that's about all I'm referring to.
  3. snowcat is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/25/2006 10:47pm


     Style: Taijutsu, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Your misinformed bullshit is tiresome phrost. At least if you had actually put effort into understanding what you're talking about, you wouldn't seem like such a dick for it.

    The difference between genbukan / bujinkan / jinenkan? Well for one, bujinkan does suck. The ryu are barely taught as the original ryu are supposed to be taught now. Bujinkan has basically just mixed everything up, there's no line between takagi ryu and gyokko ryu and koto ryu or whatever anymore. You'll see Hatsumi do stuff from all 3 in one technique. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it's not traditional and it's also filtering down to the students. 20 more years of teaching like that and all the young students are going to be doing some fucked up combination art that used to have a legitimate history.

    Kaze has already addressed the points that bujinkan training almost always sucks. I call them bujinhippies, because they seem like they're high when they train at 1/16th of normal speed, don't allow much contact and spout a lot of total bullshit about spirituality in a fight ("Control him with your mind waves, it will drain his spirit and he'll lose his will to fight!"). It wouldn't be so bad if the bujinkan crowd didnt take everything to such extremes. They often train as slow as possible, with as much reluctance as they can to sparring, and encourage to the max the modification of techniques (Ever see the pittsburgh bujinkan guy? Big fat blackbelt, can't move worth ****.)

    Tanemura learned from Hatsumi at one time. But Hatsumi was only one of Tanemura's teaches. Tanemura learned from many of Takamatu's students as well as other extremely experienced martial art masters. His movement is definately not the same as Hatsumi's, you can see it very clearly just observing the two.

    When I watch Tanemura move I get the impression he is far more serious about stopping his attacker than Hatsumi is. I also notice that you don't see the lunge punch too often in Genbukan, especially with Tanemura in the area, whereas Hatsumi seems to almost expect it nowadays (At least, that's what all his students do..)

    Genbukan on the other hand (and most aspects of jinenkan too) is way more structured. The ryu are taught properly as they once were in the Bujinkan and by Takamatsu and Toda and Ishitani, etc. The movements of some Genbukan ryu look similar to the movements done by some Bujinkan members because those Bujinkan members, unlike most, are doing things correctly.
  4. Meager is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/25/2006 11:18pm


     Style: BJJ & MT

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This thread is starting to resemble a _ing _ung lineage war argument. "No, I have the real ninjutsu!"

    Quote Originally Posted by KageKaze
    Just for the record, I never been to a Genbukan Dojo or ex Genbukan Dojo that didn't spar at least once a week.
    How many have you been to?
    Quote Originally Posted by bullwarrior
    well i allready train in sanda or san shou as you call it as part of my style, and my sifu was the first coach of italian national san shou team (i think he wasn' t the last in the line). i am a black belt in my style and my sifu pull us in trying new and different experiences with martial art... and ninpo was something difference.. and charmante as france people say..
    How the hell do you get a black belt in kung fu?
  5. Plasma is online now
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    Bullshido's Greatest Ninja

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    Posted On:
    1/26/2006 12:28am

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: JJJ/Judo[Nidan] BJJ[Blue]

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Meager
    How many have you been to?
    I trained at or with people of 5 Genbukan and ex-Genbukan Dojos.
  6. Thaiboxerken is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/26/2006 12:33am

    supporting member
     Style: Kru-MuayThai,GJJ-Blue

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So you wanna be a ninja? Ok. Here is what you can do. Take a few TKD lessons, a few Karate lessons, one or two Japanese Jujitsu lesson and then buy some pajamas. Make up some interesting sounding history about a lineage and you'll be right on par with EVERY OTHER NINJA out there.

    Oh, and don't forget to buy the pajamas.
  7. Phrost is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/26/2006 9:06am

    Business Class Supporting Memberstaff
     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by snowcat
    Your misinformed bullshit is tiresome phrost. At least if you had actually put effort into understanding what you're talking about, you wouldn't seem like such a dick for it.
    I've put plenty of effort into understanding it. Hence my conclusions. The problem is, you've only put effort into believing it. Why don't you actually read some of Asia's posts in this thread?

    Go back to LARPing, Mr. Mitty.

    What's your special Ninja power? Mine's the ability to sense bullshit 1000 miles away.
  8. Spunky is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/26/2006 12:03pm


     Style: Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The difference between genbukan / bujinkan / jinenkan? Well for one, bujinkan does suck. The ryu are barely taught as the original ryu are supposed to be taught now. Bujinkan has basically just mixed everything up, there's no line between takagi ryu and gyokko ryu and koto ryu or whatever anymore.
    That's funny. I've always heard it stressed to keep them quite seperate as individual schools. A Takagi Yoshin ryu kata makes little sense if you try to move like you would in Gyokko ryu and visa versa. When you understand the two intimately, its possible like any cross-training to blend their mechanics and principles, but in that case you're not doing Gyokko+Takagi, you're doing something new altogether.

    Hatsumi has taught the invidual ryu to his students, though nowadays he is doing his own thing (budo taijutsu, != mere sum of the ryu). He has also stated he is teaching his judan now. So I take that as meaning beginners should not blindly skip ahead. Pay attention, sure, but learn the skillsets and feelings from his students first, and eventually what he's doing now will make sense.

    Now, not long ago I tagged along when my teacher did a seminar at a Bujinkan training group, which recently broke off from its previous sponsorship. Even though they'd been under the supervision of some highly ranked Buj instructors, the students basically did not know that there ARE really nine distinct styles. They'd seen the names of the schools but that's about it. But there was some other B.S. going on with the sponsors running another organization, and students involved with that apparently had access to more in-depth training. Bad stuff.
  9. In Flames is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/26/2006 4:27pm


     Style: Judo, Iaido and jodo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "Just for the record, I never been to a Genbukan Dojo or ex Genbukan Dojo that didn't spar at least once a week."

    Tell that to the Genbukan message board... very odd people. They start off saying they don't spar before saying they do randori... which they then describe as essentially sparring... Apparently calling it sparring made it unbudolike or something...
  10. bullwarrior is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/26/2006 5:38pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: kung fu wu tao

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    [/QUOTE]
    How the hell do you get a black belt in kung fu?[/QUOTE]

    well 7 year training under a great sifu, a lot of examinations and, at last, the black belt examination in rome, with forms (katas as you call them), sparrings, first aid, accounting and italian low (economics, penal and so on).. well i'm a very normal people not as super fighter great warrior ass kicker as you are... you instead, you know only kick ass or you know something else too?
    i do not think to dress a black pajama going around at night , i need some thing new, other than punches, kicks, blocks, grapples and trowing.. wu tao is very complete in that way, i feel pain when i fight in a sanda (or san shou as most of all know this fighting sport) and i know very well the blood taste in my mounth. i think martial arts are more than breaking bone and kicking butt, i need more martial art not a fighting sports, sanda is enought for me, because i pitt against boxer, kick boxer, savateur, jujitsu, thai boxer and once with a nut shell that studied pancratium (well italy as history and we save our tradition...)
    for example the chain tecniques (kusari???) i saw this evening are very interesting, while sparring.. well they seems like monkyes.. mental exercise for meditation, different to them i used to practice...
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