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  1. AAAhmed46 is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/23/2006 5:00am


     Style: karate,MMA(between gyms)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Pre-arranged kumites in karate.

    Why do karate schools do them?

    I dont get it.

    What does it teach you?

    It isnt even usefull for touch contact.

    They are in uechi-ryu.

    Stangly, when talking online with other uechi-ryu people; ones that have cross trianed in bjj or boxing or anything other then karate/kung-fu seem to not use them.
    Or if they are part of an association, they barely practice it.
    EDIT: I have seen this with other styles as well, in person and online; people who think progressive.

    My school doesn't use them; but lots of other schools in edmonton do.



    Does it do anything? Or am i right to assume it to be bullshido?
    Last edited by AAAhmed46; 1/23/2006 5:17am at .
  2. Cormoran is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/23/2006 5:36am


     Style: Shotokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    might one day prove useful if you ever have to choreograph a fight scene for a movie.
  3. AAAhmed46 is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/23/2006 5:48am


     Style: karate,MMA(between gyms)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ah, a fellow karate man.

    So you agree with me? Am i aright?
  4. Cormoran is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/23/2006 6:09am


     Style: Shotokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    From what i've been taught it's only really to show off.
  5. Elky is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/23/2006 7:15am


     Style: Shotokan Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think it's for the benefit of people who start martial arts but are a bit timid of being thrown head first into fighting. You can get the impression sometimes that MA is the sole province of testosterone-fueled young guys who are desperate to get the gloves on and prove who's the alpha male, but you've gotta remember the people who start MA for the very reason that they're timid or weak and want to get over that. I've seen people who look terrified when they're told to do pre-arranged kumite because it's quite honestly the first time in their life that they've ever had a punch thrown at them.

    I do think it's over-used though. Once you get beyond the beginner stage it should be phased out in favour of more free 'live' training (although it still makes sense as a way to learn new techniques before trying them out live).

    In BJJ you learn techniques in co-operative partner drill to begin with before trying them out on a resisting opponent. I think the problem in many karate schools is that the balance of co-operative to resisting training swings too far towards the co-operative.
  6. Shuma-Gorath is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/23/2006 8:40am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ - Homeland Security

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by AAAhmed46
    Stangly, when talking online with other uechi-ryu people; ones that have cross trianed in bjj or boxing or anything other then karate/kung-fu seem to not use them.
    ding ding ding

    The people who have trained Alive will recognize that not even a Karate match will go down like that under ideal conditions so a real fight most definitely won't. In my opinion once you go further then one-step sparring drills you're just wasting your time and should actually spar. One-step has its use to isolate a certain technique so you can integrate it into your game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elky
    I've seen people who look terrified when they're told to do pre-arranged kumite because it's quite honestly the first time in their life that they've ever had a punch thrown at them.
    This is pitiful even by Martial Arts LARP standards. The drill is designed so that they cannot fail; in fact there is no punch being thrown at them at all because there is no intent.
  7. Elky is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/23/2006 9:49am


     Style: Shotokan Karate

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnought
    This is pitiful even by Martial Arts LARP standards. The drill is designed so that they cannot fail; in fact there is no punch being thrown at them at all because there is no intent.
    Just to re-phrase what I said earlier: regardless of whether you personally think that people shouldn't be scared by fighting or confrontation - some people are. I have seen young women start training who have never been within a mile of a fight and would probably burst into tears at a harsh word or two. Some people might say that, OK, they're just not tough enough for MA and should get a new hobby or that maybe a good kickin' would toughen them up, but I'd say there's nothing wrong with being a bit more inclusive and easing people in gently who aren't used to fighting.

    With some people, you've got to teach them to get over being afraid of the whole martial arts setup before you can start teaching them to fight. Many people find this whole stage of training really irritating - and to be honest I hate 4/5-step kumite with a passion - but as a training exercise for absolute beginners it has a purpose.
    Last edited by Elky; 1/23/2006 9:52am at .
  8. Shuma-Gorath is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/23/2006 10:19am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ - Homeland Security

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    3+step kumite is not a realistic stepping stone to actual fighting so it will only waste the beginner's time. Stick them in sparring with a responsible student and appropriately define the level of contact.
  9. Chris.B is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/23/2006 10:44am


     Style: Karate, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Kumties where originaly developed off of real fights. Just like kata kumite is designed to improve your technique. Some schools such as mine do a full contact kumite which teaches you how to think quickly and clearly under pressure. I've messed up a few times and I've been hit hard for it. The reason schools keep kumites as you go higher along, is it teaches you how to incorporate techniques into a fight.

    Now you may be ranting about how even if you master your kumite it dosn't mean you'll be able to do it in a real fight. They are completely different. Well so is Kata, they are there so you get the feel of your new techniques.
    Last edited by Chris.B; 1/23/2006 10:46am at .
  10. Shuma-Gorath is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/23/2006 10:59am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ - Homeland Security

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris.B
    Now you may be ranting about how even if you master your kumite it dosn't mean you'll be able to do it in a real fight. They are completely different. Well so is Kata, they are there so you get the feel of your new techniques.
    Two things:

    -Why are you spending all this time doing a poor approximation of a real fight that is only useful for fighting other karateka?

    -Kata does not let you "get the feel" of a new technique. The technique is done one way from one stance with one lead-in and one follow-up. You need to drill the technique in isolation and then incorporate it into your sparring. The footwork required to set it up is especially important and kata does not teach this properly.
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