Discussion of Turnovers

**fanatical** · Posted On: 2/19/2006 11:32pm

Since there is talk of judo.

Get on your opponents left side (for this explanation) and face the same way he does.
reach under his armpit with your left hand and grab the lapel closest to you. Pull it up and out to make it tight, make sure of that before you continue.

Now, quickly, step over and slide your right leg under, like you are trying to get your hooks in, but keep rolling straight forward(to the right of him), pulling your opponent with you by the lapel under his arm and hooking your leg across his abdomen to flip him.

When rolled over properly, all you have to do is get your other hook in since your first is practically there, and you have his back.

Wish I had pictures. And I don't know if this has been said before.
It's a quick and simple way to turn your opponent over when there's limited newaza time. Works for SportJJ, so should be no problem in Judo.

**Lu Tze** · Posted On: 2/19/2006 11:58pm

I like that one.

Ever tried mounting their back, tucking your feet well in under their legs, gripping with your knees (like you're riding a horse), pulling both their lapels hard into their armpits and then just turning them over by rolling to the side? Seems to work okay for me (I'm nub-belt though).

**Roidie McDouchebag** · Posted On: 2/20/2006 1:29am

If they thought the RNC was illegal, then they knew nothing.

I thought it was pretty ridiculous, as I hadn't seen anything about it in the official Judo rules I looked up. But there was one guy in particular there who certainly didn't suck, yet told me not to use the RNC the way I had learned it in Shootfighting. This may be because I upstaged him in front of his students, showing it to a guy, but he told me they weren't allowed tournament Judo.

**Greese** · Posted On: 2/20/2006 1:50am

First, most of these assume you have someone with a **** turtle. If someone has a clue you are not going to let you put a hook in. They are going to be so damn tight that thier elbows are inside thier knees. If you are in Judo and someone turtles, you are pretty much wasting effort trying to crack a turtle.

**fanatical** · Posted On: 2/20/2006 2:01am

Doesn't that sort of shine the spotlight back on Aesopians

______ is too easy to defend without a good setup.

If someone has a turtle that is just too tight to crack, then you're NOT turning him over. There's no magic anywhere. If someone is better than you, (in this case has a tighter turtle than you are able to crack) then you're not doing it.

Having options is always good though.

**Roidie McDouchebag** · Posted On: 2/20/2006 2:12am

If you are in Judo and someone turtles, you are pretty much wasting effort trying to crack a turtle.

This is what I liked least about Judo. It made newaza pointless and boring with a lot of people. They just refused to grapple at all, turtling every fucking time we were on the ground, even when we started on the ground...not practicing actual fighting, but practicing how to turtle tighter...that was gay.

**BlueChargeBoy** · Posted On: 2/20/2006 2:50am

Originally Posted by I Choke You

This is what I liked least about Judo. It made newaza pointless and boring with a lot of people. They just refused to grapple at all, turtling every fucking time we were on the ground, even when we started on the ground...not practicing actual fighting, but practicing how to turtle tighter...that was gay.

Agreed....I try never to turtle (exept perhaps momentarily) because hey, who doesn't want to win by sub, right? I figure that if they are going to stand you up after ten seconds you might as well be working for those ten seconds instead of lying there "bowing to your sensei". Do any judoka here rely on the turtle, and if so, WHY?

The other thing is I don't want to train my body to react in such a moronic way when it counts, i.e. when they can knee/kick/stab/gang-rape me.

MONGO, cheers for the advice, I guessed it would be my over-enthusiasm, leading to over-committing, leading to face-plant...

BCB

**Greese** · Posted On: 2/20/2006 3:39am

No, I am saying why talk about **** that if someone lets you do they probably will let you do just about anything. When I get a ttmf (tight turtlin mother fucker) I like to jerk the pantleg on one side up.
Turnovers still can work on a tight turtle...I just think any advice that starts with shove your hooks in is pretty useless.

**Greese** · Posted On: 2/20/2006 3:43am

Originally Posted by BlueChargeBoy

Agreed....I try never to turtle (exept perhaps momentarily) because hey, who doesn't want to win by sub, right? I figure that if they are going to stand you up after ten seconds you might as well be working for those ten seconds instead of lying there "bowing to your sensei". Do any judoka here rely on the turtle, and if so, WHY?

The other thing is I don't want to train my body to react in such a moronic way when it counts, i.e. when they can knee/kick/stab/gang-rape me.

MONGO, cheers for the advice, I guessed it would be my over-enthusiasm, leading to over-committing, leading to face-plant...

BCB

I turtle in Judo and BJJ. It is a transitory position with some neat **** that other people don't use. I can sweep from there, I can armlock,I can trianlge, I can omoplata (haven't got the reverse omoplata yet but I think Aeso can teach it to me) and leg lock from there and people don't see it coming. Frankly, if my choice is going turtle or being under side mount? I don't need to think of that ****. People think turtle is a **** position...if you can use it puts you only at a slight disadvantage.
If there is striking the turtle gives me a pretty easy stand up or the start to a takedown.