Bullshido on LJ Kung Fu (shock!)

**Samfoo** · Posted On: 1/15/2006 7:13pm

http://www.livejournal.com/community...tml?style=mine

In the Kung Fu community on Livejournal today someone posted a discussion about the merits of ground fighting (jee, preaching to the fucking choir much?). Anyway, I've attempted to post some of the responses from the Grappling FAQ in the thread and have been met with (shock!) animosity and typical Kung Fu party line.

So I'm not asking for a forum invasion par se, but it would be nice to not be the only person defending any kind of grappling.

Here are some choice quotes:

I can apply many Chi Na techniques from the ground as well as standing - wrist locks, thumb and finger twists and such. Strikes to the eyes or throat that we practice standing work just as well from the guard, etc.

The other problem with grappling is that it's very dangerous, since your opponent may be carrying a knife and will simply stab you while you're trying to grapple them.

Many wrestlers also do not understand that in practical fighting there are no rules that say that you can't kick to the knees, groin, or strike to the throat or the eyes. Many techniques in kung fu are specifically designed to disable the opponent with a single blow. Most wrestlers do not have much exposure to stand up fighting and would not be used to seeing these types of attacks.

I'm of the opinion that BJJ is effective because 99% of the time it's not being applied to someone who has absolutely no compunction about seriously injuring an opponent. I imagine it can be difficult to keep someone in a choke hold or body lock when that person has gotten a hand free, has wriggled around, and starts breaking your fingers.

I believe that a lot of people would be less vocal about BJJ being "OMG t3h BestEST Ev4R" if they saw one of the Gracies suddenly get drastically injured by someone who saw no problem in shattering both the guy's wrists in order to escape a lock.

**Gezere** · Posted On: 1/15/2006 7:35pm

Same idiotic lines. Its always funny how pple TALK about what they could do but have so much trouble DOING it.

**Gringo Grande** · Posted On: 1/15/2006 7:39pm

Please link them to the Royce Gracie Jason Delucia closed door no rules match. Possibly reference UFC 1 and 2 as well.

Gringo Grande

**Dusty Larson** · Posted On: 1/15/2006 7:40pm

Kind of on line with my friend Tatum's "if I kept going, I would've broken [insert limb name here]." But he's my pal, so I forgive him.

***Plasma*** · Posted On: 1/15/2006 7:42pm

The other problem with grappling is that it's very dangerous, since your opponent may be carrying a knife and will simply stab you while you're trying to grapple them.

IMO that a valid statement. I joke around the MTD Crew that we can do "Ninpo GroundFighting" that involves me stabbing you with a knife and rolling away. However, there is some truth to that statement. If the other person got a knife on them, the last place you want to be is on the ground looking for a lock or choke.

**Tabogganwheel** · Posted On: 1/15/2006 8:04pm

Well weapons are dangerous to any martial art, striking or grappling.
As far as I see, the biggest problem with grappling is multiple opponents. Not a real problem in competitive fighting, but can be a big issue on "t3h str33t".

**Samfoo** · Posted On: 1/15/2006 8:05pm

Originally Posted by KageKaze

IMO that a valid statement. I joke around the MTD Crew that we can do "Ninpo GroundFighting" that involves me stabbing you with a knife and rolling away. However, there is some truth to that statement. If the other person got a knife on them, the last place you want to be is on the ground looking for a lock or choke.

I'm forced to disagree. You're fucked if he's standing and pulls a knife too. "Oh but you could run away" I hear the anti-grapple peons scream. "But you can't do that when there are multiple opponents as a grappler?" I reply.

Anyway, I would argue that its better to be on the ground with someone who has a knife where you have a better chance of controlling his weapon hand.

Of course this is all academic unless we have some people throw down with some fake knives either way.

***Plasma*** · Posted On: 1/15/2006 8:10pm

Originally Posted by Samfoo

I'm forced to disagree. You're fucked if he's standing and pulls a knife too. "Oh but you could run away" I hear the anti-grapple peons scream. "But you can't do that when there are multiple opponents as a grappler?" I reply.

Anyway, I would argue that its better to be on the ground with someone who has a knife where you have a better chance of controlling his weapon hand.

Of course this is all academic unless we have some people throw down with some fake knives either way.

Actually we throwdown with wooden knives in Maryland. On the ground to gain a bit of control, however, what you lose is the ability to evade. In knife fighting, evasion is more important.

**TehDeadlyDimMak** · Posted On: 1/15/2006 8:14pm

Kingpooky seems to have taken your side in the debate.

**Virus** · Posted On: 1/15/2006 8:18pm

I love a good piece of traditional anti-grappling bullshido. I can't wait to read some gems of idiocy. In reality all of the stuff about multiple opponents, weapons is acutually true it just doesn't invalidate training for the ground. If I'm attacked by a gang of thugs and I get taken/pushed/striked to the ground I'd rather know what to do there than not know.

I could just as easily say that standup striking is a waste of time becuase you can be hit from behind if there are multiple attackers and if they pull a knife you will get cut.