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  1. Shuma-Gorath is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/14/2006 7:25pm

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     Style: BJJ - Homeland Security

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    People who would try to derive modern applications from alchemy after the development of chemistry are beyond saving.
  2. unpossible is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/14/2006 7:26pm


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    So I am going to geek out massively and compare the kind of "it's all just fighting ... ground game, takedowns, striking; get good in all of them" philosophy Phrost espouses to Lisp, and style-based combat to programming languages that have syntax.

    Beginners may be able to memorize techniques and ideas better in a classroom context, for training and rigged demo purposes, using the artificial syntax of a certain programming language (say, COBOL or Aikido), but they come out of classes thinking they can make things happen when they can't.

    Meanwhile, utterly "style-less"/syntax-less arts allow you to perform any of the actions that are available in any of the other syntax-reliant languages. Sure, there are a few standouts -- arts that have been designed, painstakingly, to be both an effective modern style as well as a SYSTEM of fighting that is teachable; they have a little 'syntax', but they're so well-designed and adaptable that they work well. (Ruby, BJJ).

    Okay, I'm a tremendous nerd. Still in nerd-mode from work.
  3. Cullion is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/14/2006 7:27pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnought
    People who would try to derive modern applications from alchemy after the development of chemistry are beyond saving.
    I refer you to my 'drug company' analogy.
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  4. Shuma-Gorath is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/14/2006 7:29pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by unpossible
    So I am going to geek out massively and compare the kind of "it's all just fighting ... ground game, takedowns, striking; get good in all of them" philosophy Phrost espouses to Lisp, and style-based combat to programming languages that have syntax.

    Beginners may be able to memorize techniques and ideas better in a classroom context, for training and rigged demo purposes, using the artificial syntax of a certain programming language (say, COBOL or Aikido), but they come out of classes thinking they can make things happen when they can't.

    Meanwhile, utterly "style-less"/syntax-less arts allow you to perform any of the actions that are available in any of the other syntax-reliant languages. Sure, there are a few standouts -- arts that have been designed, painstakingly, to be both an effective modern style as well as a SYSTEM of fighting that is teachable; they have a little 'syntax', but they're so well-designed and adaptable that they work well. (Ruby, BJJ).

    Okay, I'm a tremendous nerd. Still in nerd-mode from work.
    I'm actually jealous of how much more robust your analogy is. That, and you compared Aikido to COBOL, which allows me to point out no one is making COBOL.Net :headbang:

    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    I refer you to my 'drug company' analogy.
    Look, no one stores corpses in the drinking water anymore just for scientific curiosity. Martial arts seems to be unique in respect to hanging onto things that have no modern use, have been superceded by modern approaches or are flat out wrong.
    Last edited by Dreadnought; 1/14/2006 7:32pm at .
  5. Cullion is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/14/2006 7:32pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnought
    I'm actually jealous of how much more robust your analogy is. That, and you compared Aikido to COBOL, which allows me to point out no one is making COBOL.Net :headbang:
    Dude, people are still updating fortran to make it 'object oriented', give it Visual Studio plugins etc..
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  6. Cullion is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/14/2006 7:35pm

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     Style: Tai Chi

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnought
    Look, no one stores corpses in the drinking water anymore just for scientific curiosity. Martial arts seems to be unique in respect to hanging onto things that have no modern use, have been superceded by modern approaches or are flat out wrong.
    No, but they do investigate reports of tribes who rarely suffer from heart disease despite eating a high-animal fat diet, despite the fact that the tribe mistakenly attributing their health to their offerings to the moon god. I refer you to my drug company analogy again.
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  7. Shuma-Gorath is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/14/2006 7:41pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    Dude, people are still updating fortran to make it 'object oriented', give it Visual Studio plugins etc..
    I am aware of Fortran.Net but that doesn't mean it's at all useful to the vast majority of programmers.

    Also, I invite you to cram the drug company analogy up your ass. That has to do with observing unknown reasons for health benefits, whereas no one is using aikido to reliably win fights for unexplained reasons.
  8. Cullion is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/14/2006 7:57pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnought
    I am aware of Fortran.Net but that doesn't mean it's at all useful to the vast majority of programmers.
    I didn't think Aikido would be useful for the majority of professional fighters, which you would understand if you'd read my posts.

    Also, I invite you to cram the drug company analogy up your ass. That has to do with observing unknown reasons for health benefits, whereas no one is using aikido to reliably win fights for unexplained reasons.
    I invite you to take your strawman arguments and cram them up your ass.
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  9. Shuma-Gorath is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/14/2006 8:02pm

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     Style: BJJ - Homeland Security

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    I didn't think Aikido would be useful for the majority of professional fighters, which you would understand if you'd read my posts.
    I'm contending that it is not useful for anyone in a fighting context, and once everyone decides that a ranking in a crummy martial art is an asian-flavoured version of being a scholar of Elfish then we can all be honest with ourselves and move on. Maybe you should take your own advice and read posts, especially those that don't tell you what you want to hear.

    I invite you to take your strawman arguments and cram them up your ass.
    Who's taking a series of isolated cases in medical science and trying to translate it to a general rule in fighting science again?
  10. Cullion is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/14/2006 8:09pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnought
    I'm contending that it is not useful for anyone in a fighting context, and once everyone decides that a ranking in a crummy martial art is an asian-flavoured version of being a scholar of Elfish then we can all be honest with ourselves and move on. Maybe you should take your own advice and read posts, especially those that don't tell you what you want to hear.
    I contend that I pointed out from the beginning that aside from odd occasional trick that may be of interest, stuff like that is OK as long as you know you're only doing it out of curiosity and don't expect to get nearly as much bang for your buck as 'mainstream' training. You keep labouring this point about how 'but Aikido isn't as good as the main core of MMA-feeder arts', as if it was something the rest of us didn't know, and then repeatedly attacking this strawman of 'but aikido doesn't work very well in combat sports'. That's why I call it a strawman, because you're attacking a point I never actually made.

    Who's taking an isolated case in medical science and trying to translate it to a general rule in fighting science again?
    I'm not talking about an isolated case.
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