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  1. Aesopian is offline

    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    1/13/2006 9:36pm

    Business Class Supporting Member
     Aesopian.com 

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Your ship is sinking. Don't pretend you're just turning it into a submarine.
  2. AAAhmed46 is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    1/14/2006 4:50am


     Style: karate,MMA(between gyms)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You can take a monster engine (BJJ) and put it inside the Pinto (Aikido), but all you have is a gimmick car that's powered by something non-shitty.
    Well, how do we really know Aikido is a pinto when no one ever actually tried to apply it with the same training methods as BJJ/judo?

    Maybe we can say it's a pinto after we see better schools come out; but can we say that now?
    Last edited by AAAhmed46; 1/14/2006 5:02am at .
  3. Phrost is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/14/2006 9:34am

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     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by AAAhmed46
    Well, how do we really know Aikido is a pinto when no one ever actually tried to apply it with the same training methods as BJJ/judo?

    Maybe we can say it's a pinto after we see better schools come out; but can we say that now?
    We know it's a Pinto precicely BECAUSE nobody's ever tried to apply alive training methods to it.

    Kind of like we know the 350lb lardass at the buffet is not going to be competitive in the 100M dash. If you haven't been doing something the correct way for a long time, it's probably because you're not capable of doing it.

    Again, why waste your time? Is it because you desperately need to wear baggy pants? You have to rationalize away your enjoyment of violent activities by adding hoakey religious bullshit to them? You like anime and wish you were born in Japan?

    You can hammer nails into a board using a wrench if you want to, just because you really like wrenches. But people with common sense will just use a hammer.
  4. Hannibal is offline

    Grandmaster Sensei of Village Idiocy

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    Posted On:
    1/14/2006 10:07am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kyokushin and Judo.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost
    Yet another analogy.

    Aikido's techniques and fundamentals fucking suck; much like a Ford Pinto.

    You can take a monster engine (BJJ) and put it inside the Pinto (Aikido), but all you have is a gimmick car that's powered by something non-shitty.

    Just like Aikido would be if you blended it with BJJ: a gimmick.

    It just doesn't make sense to waste your time trying to make something "modern" when there are modern, effective arts that don't suck to begin with, and most people only have an average number of hours per week/years out of their lives they can spend on training.

    Don't waste your time on crap.
    Thats the one. Well said.

    If your like me and only have 3-4 nights a week at the most to train - it HAS to be effective. Time is too short. Money is too valuable.

    Every moment spent on training time should be dedicated to training in styles/techniques which have been proven effective in full contact competition. Thats your best bet. In my opinion there is nothing Aikido can give you that Judo/BJJ/Wrestling cannot.
    Hannibal: The sworn enemy of dishonest politicians, source of entertainment on Bullshido and newly appointed Office Linebacker. Terry Tait ain't got **** on me !!!!
  5. Zendetta is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    1/14/2006 12:48pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: MMA, functional JKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Its not obvious that the mavericks and rebels and paradigm shakers are allowed to rise in the political hierarchy of a traditional organization - especially when advanced rank is about politics rather than proficiency.
    "You know what I like about you, William? You like guns AND meditation."
  6. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    1/14/2006 1:08pm

    supporting member
     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost
    We know it's a Pinto precicely BECAUSE nobody's ever tried to apply alive training methods to it.

    Kind of like we know the 350lb lardass at the buffet is not going to be competitive in the 100M dash. If you haven't been doing something the correct way for a long time, it's probably because you're not capable of doing it.

    Again, why waste your time? Is it because you desperately need to wear baggy pants? You have to rationalize away your enjoyment of violent activities by adding hoakey religious bullshit to them? You like anime and wish you were born in Japan?

    You can hammer nails into a board using a wrench if you want to, just because you really like wrenches. But people with common sense will just use a hammer.
    I kind of agree, but there is a logic to pro-fighters looking into less mainstream stuff...

    All the Pro MMA fighters these days are atheletically conditioned and cross-trained in grappling and standup fundamentals. There might be competitive advantage to be gained from 'little tricks' from the less widely practiced styles (which mostly, at some point, descended from people with real fighting experience).

    I know this isn't the same as ploughing deep into an art with no competition track record, and making it your sole focus of training just to do the hard job of resurrecting it whilst your competition learn kickboxing and BJJ, but if you've already got that solid basis, there might be some useful little drill or method which you can get something from.

    I remember you posting a while ago that you had used something you knew from Wing Chun in grappling, but that this of course didn't mean that it made sense to drop American JuJutsu to go back to Wing Chun. Wing Chun just had a little useful trick with a niche use in amongst the 'mainstream' stuff.

    It's a bit like what drug companies do. Their research is based on thoroughly experimentally validated principles of physiology and biochemistry, backed up with constant further experimentation, but they do occasionally spend money researching 'native cures' which come to their attention.

    Of course the 'natives' using these cures often have superstitious explanations for how they work, and many of them actually don't work. But some do, and drug companies get competitive advantage from finding out about them, testing them to see if they do work, and then rigorously re-integrating them into a rational framework where the active ingredient is identified, the reason it works understood within a scientific biochemical framework and then the harmful useless chemicals that sometimes come with it discarded.

    They take the time to do this, because they know they can get useful stuff from the 'native herbalism' which would cost them more time and money to just stumble across in the lab or derive from first theoretical principles, but they don't ever give up on the rational framework of rigorous experimentation and the underpinning well-tested theories of biochemistry.

    Am I making sense ?
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  7. Phrost is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/14/2006 2:33pm

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     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Every good Martial Artist SHOULD take tricks from other arts. I love spinning backfists and scissor kicks.

    But if you don't learn the fundamentals and high-percentage techniques first, learning the low percentage ones is stupid.
  8. AAAhmed46 is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    1/14/2006 3:14pm


     Style: karate,MMA(between gyms)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    But what if your not training to become a better fighter? What if your training to fix something thats broken?

    Obviously the only way to do this is to already know something thats good(ie jujlutsu or MMA)

    If someone DOES waste thier time and fix this style up; for all we know in 20 years down the road, someone may benefit from cross training in it if you have your own non-bullshido branch of aikido?

    Bullsido;Aikido;Bullshido;aidkido.

    It ryhmes!
  9. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    1/14/2006 3:40pm

    supporting member
     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost
    Every good Martial Artist SHOULD take tricks from other arts. I love spinning backfists and scissor kicks.

    But if you don't learn the fundamentals and high-percentage techniques first, learning the low percentage ones is stupid.
    Yeah, that's what I said.
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  10. Roidie McDouchebag is offline
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    Injury Waiting To Happen

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    Posted On:
    1/14/2006 5:12pm

    supporting member
     Style: Snatch Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    But what if your not training to become a better fighter? What if your training to fix something thats broken?
    Then you're engaging in a silly waste of time.
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