Posted On:1/13/2006 7:18am
Sorry for making my first post about _ing _un!
For some reason, I get the feeling that this board is anti-wc! :icon_wink
And I share the opinions of most in respect to its effectiveness in the real world.
I recently saw this WT video and thought I'd share it with you... it seems to show WT being practised as it should be!
WT Trained Properly
Is this the way WT is trained in general? If so, then maybe Leung Ting is THE man as far as _ing _un goes!
EDIT: Although, I just checked out the White Lotus Wing Chun school in London! Full contact and pads. Now that's the way to train!
Last edited by mattr; 1/13/2006 7:30am at .
Posted On:1/13/2006 8:24am
Ah, the good old Victor gutierrez, one of the biggest names in Spainīs _ing _ung.
Iīm ambivalent wiht this guy.
On one hand, I apprecciate the efforts he has made to make _ing _ung more realistic and to make it an effective art.
But on the other hand heīs propably the biggest exponent of "anti-grappling" in Spain.
A little tale.
Years ago, wehn two unknown _ing _unners got creamed that the early UFC, there was a lot of mocking of the art by grapplers and MA aficionados alike. The beef is still going. thatīs no news for anybody on this forum.
One of the head ranks in one of the many branches in _ing _ung, related to the one Victor Gutierrez is part of, supposedly challenged one of the gracies, Rorion perhaps. The fight did never occur. Supposedly Rorion backed down, allegating agenda issues, or something like that.
This guy, Victor Gutierrez said that they could beat the Gracies, even on the ground. I canīt remmeber if he said that the other guy could beat them or if he himself could beat, I repeat on the ground. I beleive he offered himself to fight the Gracies if nobody in _ing _ung was going to step up.
This appeared in an interview ina an spanish magazine called Dojo, years ago. I think I donīt have that issue anymore, sadly.
Still nowadyas, in the techniques section of spanish MA magazines, like Dojo or Black Belt, this guy, Victor Gutierrez, appears demonstrating "anti-grappling". I guess his beef with BJJ and the gracies still is alive.
Too bad, because heīs probably one of the very few _ing_ung sifus that could turn the art into something useful... if he stopped the anti-grappling thing and added proper grappling training. But I guess this guy would rather die before learning BJJ.
On the anti-grappling thing. Maybe, if trained properly can be used against an unskilled opponent... maybe... If youīre very strong and skilled. Weīve all seen videos of untrained skater punks going at it. Notice how many times the fight goes to the ground. no anti-grappling would save you to get taken to the ground against white belt with one stripe BJJer.
Anti-grappling is the biggest waste of time ever.
Posted On:1/13/2006 8:44am
Seen it before, not particulalry impressed by it as it's mainly play acting (Including the sparrign drills where you can see if you look closely enough one guy get kneed in the arm then half a second later jump into the air).
It isn't actually brutal WC, it just looks a lot better than the usuall WC vids of Chi Sao practice.
Posted On:1/13/2006 8:45am
Style: Wing Chun
I have seen many clips like this one and one thing thats always seem to be missing (at least I would like to see it) is a sequence with two capable practioners of about equal skill sparring each other and not just someone kicking another guys ass all the time.
Posted On:1/13/2006 9:00am
Aye, as good as it may seem, we have yet to see a video of this kinda _ing _ung actually sparring.
Posted On:1/13/2006 9:20am
Even if you spar hard in _ing _un, there's conceptual mistakes that will hold you back.
These mistakes were never corrected due to the way _ing _un was (is) being thaught, the authoritarian way. In every single vid of _ing _un sparring there's the good guy that is supposed to win and wins at the end, and there's the "uke" that gets beaten.
_ing _un has to engage in open competition, shake up, reconsider it's axioms, and come out of this as a better and stronger art. However, it is unlikely that it will come out as something new and groundbraking. Most niches in MA are already taken.
Victor Guthierez is a good thing happening to _ing _un. But he has to step out of his own shadow to really mean something. Just like Emin Boztepe.
Current stage of death: denial
Posted On:1/13/2006 9:26am
Iīm afraid that this "more realistic" (that is, less shitty) _ing _ung does commit the sin of "we donīt train for sport, we train for the street". 99% of the cases (not jus _ing _ung, but any MA) that measn "we do not spar".
The scenario you, drummerboy, posted there, that is the "good vs. the villian" is not really free sparring, even if there techniques to perfom are not completely set.
I did a serahc but I couldnīt find a video of this _ing _ung, by Gutierrez, actually sparring, he or his students.
In short, I agree wiht you, specially on your last statement.
Posted On:1/13/2006 12:20pm
Style: BJJ, Wing Chun
That video is a joke.
Are you fucking kidding me? I think I saw a headbutt in there...
And I know I'm not going crazy...but I think I also saw the "camel clutch" being employed...
It is brutally obvious that the defender knew EXACTLY what was coming from the attacker...and then decided not to lighten up on his training partner at all.
"I feel naked I was so distracted by your penis"
Posted On:1/13/2006 4:39pm
Style: Moy Tung Family Ving Tsun
WHAT THE **** IS WRONG WITH THE FUCKING SOUND MY FUCKING EARS ARE BLEEDING TO FUCKING JEBUS CHRIST!!! IT'S LIKE FUCKING METAL GARBAGE CAN LIDS BEING SCRAPED AGAINST CHALK BOARDS WHILE FUCKING DEMON BUNNIES PROCREATE IN MY FUCKING EARS! ****!!
****. And why is this being "trained properly"? A maniac and presumably bad-ass instructor getting free-reign to do whatever he wants to the students? I'm really confused. He's still just working with compliant partners, and they seem to be scared of him (maybe rightly so).
Posted On:1/14/2006 7:04pm
Style: Arnis, WC, Judo
I actually downloaded and watched that. More compliant partner demonstrations... pretty damn lame. How is that WC trained properly? Anyone could make a video that shows them pretending to bash a student and look good doing it. I thought I was actually going to see some fighting.
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