TMA strikes vs boxing/MT strikes

**PirateJon** · Posted On: 1/11/2006 3:31pm

I've been pondering how to bring this up since the style vs style kick thing came up and now again with dreadnought's comments that I agreed with... I want to ask those that do TMA a question.

I've only considered punching (since I can't judge kicks) but kicks are a part of this striking debate too. In my mind an opening is an opening. So if you have an opening to hit someone with a knife hand, a palm strike, or some kung-fu hand strike - then you have the opening to hit them with a "stronger" blow such as a hook or straight.

My first thought when I see something is - what am I missing. So TMA peeps - I ask. What don't I get?
Why should someone learn those types of strikes?
Do you feel that strikes other than those found in boxing/MT have something that they lack?
If you have a TMA punch that's "kind of like a hook" or something, what is the benifit to practicing it instead of a normal hook?

**ojgsxr6** · Posted On: 1/11/2006 3:51pm

As a beginner who does both boxing and karate, I can see the advantage in learning different strikes, because punching to the head barefisted can be dangerous to someones hand, even to a condtioned hand. So I think hammerfists, knifehhand, and palm strikes can become usefull then. I also see the benefit of Enshin/Kyokushin stye training where hand strikes are only allowed to the body for the most part, because in a defense situation your natural reaction might be to only strike to the body, which could save the defender a nasty hand injury.

***DerAuslander*** · Posted On: 1/11/2006 4:01pm

Clarify what you mean by strikes.

Does this include things like reverse punch, etc., or were you think mainly of the more exotic things like palm strikes and knife hands.

**Torakaka** · Posted On: 1/11/2006 4:03pm

I think he was also saying punching the way a boxer does vs the way a... say... kung fu person does (if there really is supposed to be a difference)

**MaverickZ** · Posted On: 1/11/2006 4:06pm

ridgehands make great clotheslines. but you'll have to ask El Guapo why he uses palm strikes.

**Lights Out** · Posted On: 1/11/2006 4:15pm

When I was in karate, many years ago (man, I´m old!), we were taught that strikes as knife hands were meant to be targeted to soft parts, i.e. the neck, or the armpit (altrought I donñt know how often in a fight somebody exposes his armpit).

**hl1978** · Posted On: 1/11/2006 4:17pm

Originally Posted by PirateJon

I've been pondering how to bring this up since the style vs style kick thing came up and now again with dreadnought's comments that I agreed with... I want to ask those that do TMA a question.

I've only considered punching (since I can't judge kicks) but kicks are a part of this striking debate too. In my mind an opening is an opening. So if you have an opening to hit someone with a knife hand, a palm strike, or some kung-fu hand strike - then you have the opening to hit them with a "stronger" blow such as a hook or straight.

My first thought when I see something is - what am I missing. So TMA peeps - I ask. What don't I get?
Why should someone learn those types of strikes?
Do you feel that strikes other than those found in boxing/MT have something that they lack?
If you have a TMA punch that's "kind of like a hook" or something, what is the benifit to practicing it instead of a normal hook?

in my own experience the advantage is that since your hand is open, it is easier to grab after throwing the technique.

also you use them to strike different parts of the body than a closed fist.

**Jaguar Wong** · Posted On: 1/11/2006 5:39pm

I'm guessing this thread is sort of an offshoot of the ridge hand thread...

That being the case, my personal response to your question of "what don't I get? Why should someone learn these strikes?" I say...you're not missing anything, and honestly I don't feel that anyone needs to learn these strikes to be a powerful dangerous striker. It's just that I already learned them before paring down the number of strikes I use, based on things like how well I can use them, and how well they actually work.

Given the chance to start all over with my training, I can't really say if I'd go the same route, but the strikes I use (that are not also found in styles like Boxing) aren't so completely useless that I threw them away after learning them. I mean I'm not going to use crane beak finger tip strikes, or back of the wrist strikes, but some of the others I've been able to use (palm strikes, knife hands, and ridge hands). No need to neglect them if I already spent the time developing them (or "wasted" the time as I'm sure some of you here feel).

I think the jab, cross, hook, uppercut, overhand and elbow strikes are pretty much all you need, but I didn't realize that until well after learning all the other stuff, and praticing to use much of it while sparring. I'm sure my hooks and jabs would probably be much better if I practiced them instead of practicing knife hand strikes, but I don't really feel as if learning the other strikes really hurt my actual striking game. It was a case of discarding the useless stuff, but having a lot of techniques to chose from. Not the best approach by any means, but not a complete waste of time, since I do have a few tricks in my bag that have worked well against many sparring partners. That's just my personal feelings on the subject, though.

**saku39** · Posted On: 1/11/2006 6:56pm

open handed strikes are great on the ground. gives you more distance to get your hands up to speed, and allows you to hit at a better point in the motion. Also, saves your hands from being destroyed on someones skull. Also, palm strikes are good from the clinch for many of the same reasons.

**Omar** · Posted On: 1/11/2006 7:10pm

Originally Posted by PirateJon

I've only considered punching (since I can't judge kicks) but kicks are a part of this striking debate too. In my mind an opening is an opening. So if you have an opening to hit someone with a knife hand, a palm strike, or some kung-fu hand strike - then you have the opening to hit them with a "stronger" blow such as a hook or straight.

This only true if you put gloves on. With bare hands things change substantially. I haven't been following the ridge hand thing but I'll try to give a few examples to make my point.

- rising strike with the wrist under the chin.

That's a pointless strike as you could possibly imagine but thouroughly effective with no gloves on.

- inward forearm the the side of the head.

Almost the same as a tight hook from clinch range but it reads differently and depending on how close or your relative positions it can often be a stronger strike. It is certainly at least a strong as a hook but with no gloves it presents no danger whatsoever of hurting your hand on his skull. Sometimes your arm has already been extended to far to get off a decent hook so you just don't have the same opening.

- Tiger claw to the trachea.

From a standing clinch you can sneak your hand up a guys chest and grab his trachea. You can also often snake the arm over the crook of his elbow from the oustide, pinning it across his chest briefly as you grab the trachea. This doesn't require any speed and is more of a sneaky move. It doesn't feel dangerous to the other guy untill you have his throat. This is not a strike at all but a grab. You don't grab the throat, you grab the adams apple. Dig your fingers in behind and give your partner a gentle squeeze so he knows you got him.

Again, totally worthless with gloves on. Even with MMA gloves it is signifigantly more dificult because although you can still do the grab, the gloves make your hand enough bigger that you can't really sneak in under their chin if it's at all tucked in. With bare hands they need to tuck in like defending a RNC.

Then there's "kung fu hands" that could be replaced with a regular punch but if you are bare handed, the special shape lets you do more damage with less effort or in spots where you otherwise might not be in a position to generate enough power for a decent punch. This would be things like:

- Index finger middle knuckle punch at an upwards angle under the cheekbone,
- Index finger middle knuckle punch inwards towards someone's heart through the top couple ribs that are inside your armpit.
- Same punch again but to the solar plexus.

These are all valid targets with a regular punch but you can do much more damage with the "phoenix eye fist" (Index finger middle knuckle). The rest of the mechanis can stay the same.

- How about the middle of somone's chest? A pretty useless target with a regular punch in that case but a palm strike can take someone out that way.

- The forehead? Punch or Palm? You know the answer. But again...with gloves on it really doesn't matter now does it.

- index and middle fingers held together to stab upwards into someone's armpit. I'd like to see you hit someone there effectivel with a regular punch.

The list goes on. Most of those "wierd" fists are not like exchangeable screwdriver head where the rest of the tool is the same and you just change the tip. They are typically built in to complete techniques including the set up and the target intended, what angle you get the target from etc.