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  1. Killbot is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/11/2006 9:40am


     Style: BJJ & MMA, Kali

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'd go with the 9mm for the single reason of ammo cost.

    Compared to .40 and .357SIG, 9mm are pretty cheap.

    It is the weakest of the three, however...so if you are considering it for anything more than target shooting with your buddys, I'd go for the .40 or .357Sig.
    You get nearly the same muzzle velocity off of a .357Sig that you do out of a .357Mag. Good engineering there...but its a rather new round and might be a little hard to find a good supply.

    .40 is probably the best middle ground...best of both in cost and power.

    And honsetly, if you haven't owned a gun or shot much before, I'd start with a .22 target pistol.


    Avoid .380s, they are not very accurate and very much so avoid .32 Colts becuase they are the exact opposite of accurate.
  2. Plasma is online now
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    Posted On:
    1/11/2006 9:42am

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     Style: 柔術

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Clyde
    Do some research before buying, there's nice guns out there that are reasonably priced but are recommended shooters. The Hi-Point http://www.mkssupply.com/ is a very inexpensive piece, but it's ugly and heavy for a polymer. Of all the reviews and posts I've read (over 300) about the weapon, only a few say it's bad, but that's typical of most guns.

    The Glock Kaboom, do a Google search, may not be your best choice for the money.

    Calibers, something that will do the job nicely, and why LEO's have gone to this particular round is not only recoil, but great stopping power, is the .40 S&W. I guess many districts had a problem with the 9mm not putting enough UMMPPPPHHH on it but they didn't want to go with the .45, they got the best of both in the .40. The FBI went to a 10mm at one time but most of their agents couldn't shoot it with any accuracy so they switched to the .40 S&W. I have a 9mm, but I also have 2 .40's, primarily because I want ammo to be plentiful in an emergency so having both calibers keeps me shooting from the local Walmart, which BTW, has Winchester White Box, 100rds (great range ammo), cheaper than anywhere I've seen, on and offline. Some guns, like the XD, have interchangeable barells for the .357 and .40.

    BTW, the .380 is a 9mm short, and some say it's the smallest round you should use for Self Defense, though many carry KelTec .32 pocket pistols, they recommend going up to the .380 caliber P3AT as it's the same size gun. I've actually seen it called an exploding credit card.

    The next thing you need to worry about is what type of ammo for the caliber of weapon you purchase. There's some exotic **** out there but the best ones ain't cheap. I carry Winchester SXT's in mine when not on the range, but there's HydraShock, Gold Spears, etc..

    Good luck, be safe, and do plenty of research on the net to make an informed choice. Get something that you can buy parts and pieces for readily and not cost an arm and leg. Also make sure you get something with a good warranty in case you get a lemom, hence the reference to Hi Point up top, lifetime warranty no matter what.

    Have a great Kenpo day

    Clyde
    Thank you for a very detailed response!

    No worries I been researching for last 6 months. I decide to post the thread to get some final input.

    As for safetly, I do how to shoot and not a noobie is shooting. However, I am noobie for ownership and mantience. Therefore, before I buy a pistol I will be taking the NRA Handgun Safety Course.

    http://www.continentalarms.com/conti...showpage&pid=7

    This is also the place I was planning on looking at the glocks. They also sell S&W so I can look at that Sig 229 (I assume this is the one you guys were talking about in the beginning of the thread).

    http://remtek.com/arms/sig/model/229/229.htm

    So I gather the .40 is better then the 9mm. What the difference between the .40 and .357?
  3. Killbot is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/11/2006 11:19am


     Style: BJJ & MMA, Kali

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KageKaze

    So I gather the .40 is better then the 9mm. What the difference between the .40 and .357?
    between 100 and 400 feet per second....depending on the load and bullet.

    .40 = 1000-1300 f/s
    .357 Sig = 1100-1700 f/s


    again, .40 is more common and I think cheaper in general.
  4. SFGOON is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/11/2006 11:20am


     Style: Systema, BJJ, Arrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    9mm, .380 et all are too underpowered to reliably use for self defense. Forget about them.

    The .40 and the .357 use the same cartridge diameter, making them interchangeable in the same pistol provided you can switch the barrels. This is very simple with the Glock model 23. Between the two, I wold reccomend the .357 for it's tremendous muzzle velocity. When used in conjunction with hollowpoint rounds, this will cause MASSIVE hemmoraging. Although some would argue that .357 loses velocity quickly (and it does) you'll rarely employ a pistol at medium or long range.

    The Glock is an excellent pistol. In addition to being accurate, the three safeties are all contained in the trigger. For you, this means no worrying about flicking a safety off under duress, you just pull, point, and pulverize. This doesn't mean that the Glock is unsafe - you could throw a locked and loaded Glock off a skyscraper and not worry about it misfiring when it hits the ground.

    Finally, Glocks are highly reliable with a simple, durable contstruction. They are well engineered, highly ergonomic, and kinda cute.

    Get one.
  5. Plasma is online now
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    Posted On:
    1/11/2006 11:31am

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     Style: 柔術

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by SFGOON
    9mm, .380 et all are too underpowered to reliably use for self defense. Forget about them.

    The .40 and the .357 use the same cartridge diameter, making them interchangeable in the same pistol provided you can switch the barrels. This is very simple with the Glock model 23. Between the two, I wold reccomend the .357 for it's tremendous muzzle velocity. When used in conjunction with hollowpoint rounds, this will cause MASSIVE hemmoraging. Although some would argue that .357 loses velocity quickly (and it does) you'll rarely employ a pistol at medium or long range.

    The Glock is an excellent pistol. In addition to being accurate, the three safeties are all contained in the trigger. For you, this means no worrying about flicking a safety off under duress, you just pull, point, and pulverize. This doesn't mean that the Glock is unsafe - you could throw a locked and loaded Glock off a skyscraper and not worry about it misfiring when it hits the ground.

    Finally, Glocks are highly reliable with a simple, durable contstruction. They are well engineered, highly ergonomic, and kinda cute.

    Get one.
    Thank you sir! That answer some questions I was going to ask the store about the Glock and about the .357 caliber round.

    Thank to everyone for the input, you guys helped me out a lot.
  6. hl1978 is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/11/2006 11:55am


     Style: Aunkai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Mantis
    I dislike Glocks. If you haven't gone down to your local gun store and ask for a variety of guns to shoot, so you can decide on a purchase, you should.

    The advantage to the 9mm is that it is the NATO round. Plenty of ammo to be found. It roughly translates down to a .380 caliber. I've been eyeballing the Walther P99 for a while now for a 9mm.

    Goo luck.

    I own a P99 in 9mm, great ergonomics and very lightweight (the frame feels like it weighs nothing). You can replace the barrel with a .40. if oyu want to save 50 bucks you can buy the smith and wesson version.

    all depends on what you are using it for (from your original post, Im not sure if it is for the range, or personal protection), but for target shooting 9mm is fine, its still cheap enough for range use (though not as crazy cheap as a .22) and is adequate for defense if thats your bag.

    I would advocate the above, find a range that rents and try out a wide variety of pistols. Find one you like yourself, rather than recommendations of others.
  7. SFGOON is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/11/2006 3:50pm


     Style: Systema, BJJ, Arrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yaaarrrr....

    If you want to use your pistol for defense, anything less than a 10mm or .40 will compromise your kill power. It's cheap ammo, for sure, and you will know why when someone you have just shot is able to accurately return fire from the ground. Hopefully, for your sake, he'll be packing 9mm too.

    The valid point here is that you DO need to try a variety of pistols before you drop $600 on them. This means handling a variety over time, developing your pistolcraft to understand your own personal style, and then selecting a sidearm that suits your specific needs. However, sight unseen, I'd say Glock.

    As far as training at the range goes, it's good idea/bad idea. Good idea, you get used to your weapon and how it fires. Bad idea, it teaches you SHITTY combat habits. Best idea - train OCCASIONALLY at the range, and spend the rest of the time mixing it up with a blue gun at h2h range. Especially incorporate 1. shooting from the hip at point blank range, 2. drawing to the weaver at medium range, and 3. shoot/move techniques for when things get U-G-L-Y. REMEMBER TO TAKE COVER FIRST! You need to be so familliar with your pistol that you can use it while going to the bathroom, because trust me, when "it" hits the fan first you'll say it - then you'll do it....

    For a good visual representation of how to use a pistol, see Micheal Mann's "Collaterol." The man who does Mr. Mann's weapons consulting was a former SAS operative and is as excellent as they get. Train with the idea that the things you see in this movie are the things you will be doing in a firefight.
  8. Phrost is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/11/2006 3:58pm

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     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What Anthony is doing with his training is awesome. That should be the model for avoiding bullshido in firearms. Just like you don't try to teach yourself grappling, you don't try to learn shooting/drawing/etc on your own either.

    If you don't have any military/LEO experience, find an instructor who does.
  9. MONGO is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/11/2006 7:46pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I agree with Phrost's above post but I will take it a bit further. If there is little to no external safeties on a firearm, there must be more training and safety placed in the operators brain and body. The glock is a fine pistol and the consistant trigger pull is more easily mastered.

    Find an instructor that has serious shooting experience. Not just any old cop, look for an experienced SWAT, Seasoned OFC with LE backed credentials, or a serious shooter in the military (most likely a former special operator). Anthony's log is great because he is learning from EX SAS operators who are probably some of the best in the world. Training should also be hard and you should have the discipline to maintain your skills and further your training. For example, training on your own at least monthly and yearly schools like Gunsite or Thunder Ranch .

    The 9mm, 10mm, 45 acp/gap argument is really irrelevant because there is always arguments for and against. There is no such things as a sure fire fight stopper, bullets do weird **** when they hit people.

    As for handguns, I second the sig recomendation, good weapon but it takes a lot of training to get used to a traditional da gun. Get good nightsights and a good holster. Buy a good gun that you can carry comfortably and get really good with not only the skills but the mindset. A gun is for killing other humans, when it is time to use it, use it well and don't **** it up.
  10. Southpaw is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/11/2006 8:18pm

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     Style: BJJ, Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have a Glock 23 and I love it.

    Still the best guns out of the box if you ask me.

    As several people have said...9mm is too small...

    I think .357 ammo is tougher to find than a .40...so I'd lead towards a .40.
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