Possible MT Bullshido

**albert** · Posted On: 1/10/2006 2:26pm

I´m looking for a place to train in Madrid, so I went to this gym named Barceló Club . I watched a class yesterday that was taught by a pretty seasoned fighter in Rafi Zouheir. Rafi seems tough as nails, but I didn´t like the way he ran his class.

My problem is that during almost the entire class; 45 minutes out of 60, they did drills which consisted in hitting each others´ gloves and kicking each other with shinguards on, with some knees and elbows. It was sort of like TKD style 3 step fighting. I almost felt like I was in an advanced cardio kickboxing class.

This seems ridiculous to me because you can´t hit someone´s glove with full force. If you´re going to do that as part of a warmup, fine. But to devote almost the entire class to it seems really strange to me. I attended a class myself the next day, and again it was overwhelmingly glove drills. At the end we finally busted out kicking shields, but that was only 5 or 10 minutes.

It´s possible that the drills that they´re doing are temporary, but I think they´re almost useless period. They´re not alive like good feeding is. And I know the gym owns pads, but they we locked away in some box near the ring. Owning pads and not using them is retarded, but I´ll have to ask the instructor how often they use them. For now I´m just going to check out more gyms.

Any advice?

**Torakaka** · Posted On: 1/10/2006 2:34pm

err... that's about exactly the same as my classes were when I first started coming to my gym. I'd say that's pretty standard. Some gyms they hold focus mitts instead of gloves. No signs of bullshido here.

**Arbiter** · Posted On: 1/10/2006 3:03pm

We tend to run a lot of drills like that to teach basics. If there is a high percentage of beginners in the level-1 class then we tend to do more of it to demonstrate and practice the basic hand strikes back and forth. Keeps the class moving faster than if we were to break between drills to take off gloves and put on target mits; gives them more reps and keeps heartrate up. Emphasis more on movement than hitting as hard as you can. Also one of the reasons we use 16oz gloves, they make for good targets that you can actually hit hard, makes a good target. For more advanced class you might just see it as a warm-up drill. You probably just saw them doing beginner drills, maybe some of the peeps really needed work on basic punching technique... As long as they do lots of other things too, they are probably fine. You should at least give them another chance and ask the coach Rafi about it. BTW how much experience do you have w/ various kickboxing gyms?

**albert** · Posted On: 1/10/2006 3:06pm

KS: This was not a beginners' class. There are other MT classes with different instructors, so maybe they use pads there. But glove drills for me were a big turnoff. I've never seen it before and I don't like it. I want to hit pads, the heavy bag, or people, nothing else.

Arbiter: I've trained at two other gyms, and never seen that drill. I know that's not a lot, and I don't pretend to be an expert. I may be just be jumping to a premature conclusion.

**Gringo Grande** · Posted On: 1/10/2006 3:10pm

Then you run the risk of possibly limiting yourself. Different strokes for different folks however.

Gringo Grande

**Torakaka** · Posted On: 1/10/2006 3:12pm

Originally Posted by albert

KS: This was not a beginners' class. There are other MT classes with different instructors, so maybe they use pads there. But glove drills for me were a big turnoff. I've never seen it before and I don't like it. I want to hit pads, the heavy bag, or people, nothing else.

Arbiter: I've trained at two other gyms, and never seen that drill. I know that's not a lot, and I don't pretend to be an expert. I may be just be jumping to a premature conclusion.

my muay thai class was not a beginners class either. This was the way my muay thai instructor's instructor trained him, so it's the way he trains us. My instructors are nearly undefeated in muay thai (one loss to split decision). Definitely not bullshido.

**AAAhmed46** · Posted On: 1/10/2006 3:57pm

Clearly bullshido. A real thai class would have you hitting trees and small children

:new_vampv :new_vampv :new_vampv :occasion1 .

**Lotion** · Posted On: 1/10/2006 3:57pm

this is how MT is run. Heck, this is how a lot of Boxing classes are run as well. What did you expect? People hitting eachother full force? You would only be able to practice like once a month. Full contact sparring is overrated - focus on technique MAN!!!
That being said, sparring is uber important. I was quite the shadowboxer - people liked my form but when I first tried it, I didn't look so good - ou need balance, ying yang

**j416to** · Posted On: 1/10/2006 4:19pm

Albert

I would find another place to train, this probably isn't the place for you.

Why?

1) A class that is anything less than 1 1/2 hrs is probably too short for you. They won't have time to teach you any advanced techniques, and you're beyond the beginner/intermediate level.

2) A 45 min class usually means that they're trying to sandwich in as many classes as possible. That's usually a sign that they're trying to run a very tight ship. You probably won't have much time to learn or practice anything new. And I'm guessing that you're not allowed to just hang around after class, to practice technique.

3) Places that regularly has people hitting gloves are usually full of beginners, and only beginners, because beginners can't hold Thai pads.

**Arbiter** · Posted On: 1/10/2006 4:20pm

BTW we do use glove targets in advanced drills too, more complex combos and interactive movements. We generally won't spend as much of the workout time on them though because there is so much other material and activities to cover.