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  1. JKing is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/10/2006 5:46am

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     Style: Kajukenbo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    MY ridgehand

    Well, I suppose the only way this forum will actually work out is if people start submitting things to it, so heres mine.


    The traditional ridge hand in a non-traditional environment

    I am a big fan of the ridge hand ever since I discovered it for myself in sparring about 3 years ago. Its a great switch up angle from the normal hook, and its range can sometimes be excellent depending on the situation.

    THE TECHNIQUE:

    We'll use right hand in back to describe this technique. A ridge hand (for power) can be fired from the rear hand or for speed from the lead hand. Since a jab or backfist is better fired from the lead hand we'll discuss the rear ridge hand.

    1.The area of your hand you are striking with will be side of the knuckle above your thumb or the jutting out knuckle of the thumb. Alot of "purists" will tell you the "proper" way to use this technique but as we know we can't all step into our
    foreward stance and let out a kiai whilest perfecting our hand kata when sparring. In order to execute this strike you need to curl in your thumb and keep your hand flat with fingers out (think karate chop!). This is your pretty basic ridge hand. There can be a bit more too it but lets get into action.


    omg teh krotty

    2. now imagine your target in front of you (or use a bag, even better). If you have a target, throw a rear hand punch at the same side (if you punch with your right hand, the right side of a bag) not on the target. now, with a twist of your hips you form your ridge hand and pretty much smash the target. I'll see about getting a video for this later. take some time on a bag to really get the feel for it - its a very "flow" movement.

    3. The hardest part of this technique is learning how the power behind it works. Theres a slight flick of the wrist involved which can be bad for your wrists if you flick him mid contact, as well as rolling of the shoulder. You might have success exaggerating the swing into the target at first to get the feel of rolling your shoulder. Now this is opposed to a more traditional ridge hand which would often lead to a very very exaggerated arm movement intended for high power that a two year old could see before it hit and parry/dodge/block. Instead, I use it as a quick specialized head shot.

    APPLICATION


    I find that the ridge hand is a very under used if not under known technique. This is not a (kick)boxing technique, mind you. (only because you can't form much of a ridge with those gloves.)

    The first application is as a strike to the bridge of the nose. This is where I first started to learn how to use it myself. Waters the other person's eyes pretty quickly and hurts. Alot of people have the reflex (until they train it out) to turn their head when something goes at their face. Also a pull back reaction with their head. this was when I was still pretty new to sparring and so were the people in my class. I found that I would miss a hook, but I could extend my reach with a ridge hand and take advantage of this.

    Second application - why use a Ridge hand here instead of a hook? simple - it fakes really easily. For alot of reasons a hook is superior in terms of damage. For range though this is great because its often seen to be a straight when instead it comes out a ridge. Its also a bit of a dirty move when done to the side of the head because it just so happens that the jut of your thumb can catch the corner of someone eye...

    the best way to fire a ridge hand is AFTER another strike. In fact it is the common "third" strike in my combo's due to the fact that it takes a very strange line that catches some people unaware. This is not intended as an opener unless you're trying to be tricky somehow that I can't see. This is not a power technique, as opposed to a hook. It can be used against the side of the head to some success but in no way replaces the power of a hook. When I went to the throwdown I was really glad to see that I landed a ridge on about everyone I sparred (nevermind if I got my butt kicked or not). Now,like most techniques, I consider it a tool to be put in a tool box. Just like all tools they have their uses at various times but no one tool can fix it all.

    I plan on putting more traditional based stand up stuff that I use in sparring in the future - I am no expert but just wanted to share anyways.
  2. Jaguar Wong is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/10/2006 4:56pm

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     Style: Shaolin Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I used to use this a lot, but I sort of let it fall out of my arsenal when I wasn't training as often, and would only work on my jab, cross and hook. I was going to start using it again, but I haven't done much heavybag work, or sparring in quite some time.

    However, I don't use the same striking surface that you're describing. I use the area just above that part. What I do is turn my hand just a hair to more of the top of my hand is facing the target (just a hair mind you, not some 30 degree turn). I do that because my thumbs buckle under ridiculously low levels of impact (they're pretty frail, like the rest of my fingers).

    Also, my main target is the side of the head, including targets such as the side of the neck, jaw, temple, or ear (accidentally anyway). When I use it, it's more of a side stepping overhand that comes from higher up (stepping out of the way of one of their strikes, or clearning the way with the other hand). And just before impact, I do a little kung fu-esque arm bend using the bicep to snap the shot in along with the wrist. This is mainly for preventing my elbow from hyper extending on impact if I'm lazy.

    One of the other ways I've been able to use it was for more of a distracting strike, like a quick snapping jab or backfist from inside to set up the "bigger better deal". If my hand is on the inside, I would shoot my hand just to the outside of their head making sure to wedge their same side arm out a little, and once the hand approaches the target, I would hook it back in with the same bicep motion so it flicks out in a nice button hook type of path. Just for Phrost...this is actually a snake fist move from some of the Southern Shaolin stuff I've seen. The first one I described is from some of the crane stuff I learned. Boo Yaa!! And yes I wear pajamas while doing those strikes.

    One major thing I should bring up, though...I'm not just using bicep and shoulder strength, I'm using all of that on top of the hip twist that I would also use for hooks.
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  3. Neildo is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/10/2006 5:03pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: FBSD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JKing

    omg teh krotty
    LOL! awesome.

    Now that i've gotten that out of the way, i'm gonna read your post.

    edit: Nice. I think someone on another thread was asking about the ridge-hand. That sums it up pretty well.
    Last edited by Neildo; 1/10/2006 5:21pm at .
    :new_all_c
  4. Shuma-Gorath is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/10/2006 6:10pm

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     Style: BJJ - Homeland Security

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JKing
    APPLICATION

    I find that the ridge hand is a very under used if not under known technique.
    They use it a lot in crappy schools where you can't hit the face but the sides of the head are allowed.

    The first application is as a strike to the bridge of the nose. This is where I first started to learn how to use it myself. Waters the other person's eyes pretty quickly and hurts. Alot of people have the reflex (until they train it out) to turn their head when something goes at their face. Also a pull back reaction with their head. this was when I was still pretty new to sparring and so were the people in my class. I found that I would miss a hook, but I could extend my reach with a ridge hand and take advantage of this.
    So it only works until they're trained to properly deal with oncoming strikes? If you want to water their eyes, jab them in the nose. If they pull back when getting hit, move in and throw the hook; their jaw is up.

    Second application - why use a Ridge hand here instead of a hook? simple - it fakes really easily. For alot of reasons a hook is superior in terms of damage. For range though this is great because its often seen to be a straight when instead it comes out a ridge. Its also a bit of a dirty move when done to the side of the head because it just so happens that the jut of your thumb can catch the corner of someone eye...
    It has the power of a jab with the travel time of a hook and the visibility of a high kick. Sounds like you have all three categories minimized.

    the best way to fire a ridge hand is AFTER another strike. In fact it is the common "third" strike in my combo's due to the fact that it takes a very strange line that catches some people unaware. This is not intended as an opener unless you're trying to be tricky somehow that I can't see. This is not a power technique, as opposed to a hook. It can be used against the side of the head to some success but in no way replaces the power of a hook. When I went to the throwdown I was really glad to see that I landed a ridge on about everyone I sparred (nevermind if I got my butt kicked or not). Now,like most techniques, I consider it a tool to be put in a tool box. Just like all tools they have their uses at various times but no one tool can fix it all.
    So you throw a non-power shot near the end of a combo? That seems counterintuitive. Also, you landed it, but to what effect?
  5. JKing is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/11/2006 1:14am

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     Style: Kajukenbo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Actually I'm enjoying the clinch range alot more - and it seems to get alot more done for me these days. Alot of my punching range and kick range techniques are just transitionary. It has nothing to do with OMG DEADLY or OMG KNOCKOUT. I would also like to point out that had you actually read the whole thing I never said this was a would all be all technique. A good faker, thats about it. I also stated that I FIRST learned to use the ridge when I had barely beein in martial arts with OTHER beginners. I also stated that now I use it as a fake.

    I would be happy to spar anyone in the area if there needs to be clarification. how many times do I have to say that a hook is so much better before someone can skim the whole thing and see it?
  6. Jaguar Wong is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/11/2006 1:04pm

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     Style: Shaolin Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you're only using it as a fake, then I think you may be selling the technique short still. I understand what Dreadnought is saying, but there are still a few clarifications to be made. He's got perfectly valid points, but only if you're trying to replace certain techniques with a ridgehand (or even knife hand...teh d34dly karate chop!). While the ridge hand isn't the "final solution", it's got a nice little spot nestled right in between hooks and jabs.

    In clinching range, if you've got an overhook, or if your hand has a nice clear path to the target, I would always use a hook, but if the guy is retreating and you can't maintain the distance (he puts a little more distance between you), a ridge hand has better range without forcing you to lean in or rush in for a hook. It works well as a nice re entry technique. More power than a jab, but has slightly less range, it's just as fast as a hook, has better range, but lacks the KO power. It's a utility that can make the difference, but isn't essential to anyone's tool box.

    I actually use the ridge hand to bridge the gap sometimes. I find the overhand left (I fight southpaw most of the time) is a better technique for it, but you can't stick to the exact same tactics every single time you spar with people and expect it to work all the time. If you don't change the game up, you get stale and predictable. So what I do is to either step in at an angle, come over an incoming strike with the ridgehand, and then, based on the distance, fight from there. Or, I jam/stuff/check their hands, and come in with the ridgehand as a first strike.

    Bottom line, if you suck at the ridge hand, then don't use it. It's not as essential as the jab, or hook, but if you can use it, why abandon it. I mean the spinning back kick isn't considered one of the essential kicking techniques for MMA, but it has helped several fighters.

    At least this thread isn't about Sakuraba's double Mongolian Chop.
    Jaguar's MMA record
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    We're number one! All others are number two or lower.
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  7. JKing is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/11/2006 3:00pm

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     Style: Kajukenbo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    its still mostly a fake for me - but not like a person would fake a kick then do a punch ro vice versa. Its a fake for me because again most people dont expect the ridge to come down in the angle it does - if that makes sense. An example what I mean is like in kyokushin when you see a guy chamber what looks like to be a foreward kick then slams down a round kick to the head with that leg instead.
  8. Kobayashi is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/15/2006 4:17pm


     Style: Baguazhang

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    JKing, when sparring my old karate sensei used to use the ridgehand as an alternative to a hook similar to what you described. It comes from an odd angle and he could make it work. Although he liked to use it when sparring, he would not consider using it in an altercation. The reason being is that the wrist is weak in this position and he knew a few people that suffered radial breaks from hitting a heavy bag too hard with a ridgehand. Chances are high that you'd injure yourself in a scrap.

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