1. #1

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Heavier Opponents?

    I'm 5' 10", about 70 kilos and I recently started Submission Wrestling.

    The only thing is that all the guys that I train with not only are way more experienced than me, but they all outweigh me upwards of 15 kilos. I'm able to defend against subs pretty well when we roll. Often going 5 minutes to stalemate. However, when I try and apply subs my opponent muscles out of them easily.

    Sorry for the noobness. But what are some high percentile subs I should work on that aren't so easy to muscle out of?

  2. #2

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    im still kinda a noob as well, but i decided to be defensive for a couple months so i could concentrate on getting the position for the subs. When i would spar, when i first started, i would roll defensivly looking for ways to pass the guard and get the proper position.

    My teacher says "Position before submission". When you have the right position and sink the sub in properly then your partners wont be able to muscle out as easily.


    I also use the americana and kimura alot. They are hard to get out of when applied correctly.
    Last edited by Method2Madness; 1/09/2006 6:50pm at .

  3. #3
    Phrost's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I imagine the replies you'll get to this will be along the lines of:

    1. Train more.

    2. Don't worry about subs until your position game is better.

    3. If they're muscling out of your subs, you really don't have them to begin with... unless you're 120lbs.

  4. #4
    UpaLumpa's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by D34dly Ninj4
    I'm 5' 10", about 70 kilos and I recently started Submission Wrestling.

    The only thing is that all the guys that I train with not only are way more experienced than me, but they all outweigh me upwards of 15 kilos. I'm able to defend against subs pretty well when we roll. Often going 5 minutes to stalemate. However, when I try and apply subs my opponent muscles out of them easily.

    Sorry for the noobness. But what are some high percentile subs I should work on that aren't so easy to muscle out of?
    Going no gi you're going to see this a lot.
    It is a lot easier to muscle out of subs in no-gi applied from the guard (actually I find all defense easier no-gi). That's one reason why the transition from gi to no-gi is easier than the reverse.

    To actually answer your question though there are two options:
    1) Get to the top.

    Given your size you're likely ending up on the bottom whether you're starting standing or on knees. From their work your sweeps and get to the top.
    From on top you'll have a better percentage of finishing with, for example, armbars in no-gi given the strength difference.

    2) STFU and train.

    You pick.


    (If you're having problems from mount too the answer most certainly is '2')

  5. #5

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Just train more, drill more, and focus on correct posture from all positions.

    And bye bye.

  6. #6

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by D34dly Ninj4
    I'm 5' 10", about 70 kilos and I recently started Submission Wrestling.

    The only thing is that all the guys that I train with not only are way more experienced than me, but they all outweigh me upwards of 15 kilos. I'm able to defend against subs pretty well when we roll. Often going 5 minutes to stalemate. However, when I try and apply subs my opponent muscles out of them easily.

    Sorry for the noobness. But what are some high percentile subs I should work on that aren't so easy to muscle out of?

    Phost is correct when hes referring to your positional game in relation to your submission game. Its not so much the individual submissions that are high percentage, but rather the submissions success depends on where its applied from- for instance, you'll succeed in a collar choke much more often from the back than from the guard, and you'll have better luck with a kimura from the cross side than from half guard.

    Weight matters alot- thats why there is weight divisions. Thats reality for you, and theres no magic way about it- you're going to have to train twice as much as your classmates if you want to catch up to and eventually beat them.


    That being said, the best advice for a submission you may be particularly interested in is a guillotine choke from the guard, which can be setup from the feet during takedowns or even on the ground. The guillotine is a very basic, yet very effective submission. Its rather easy to learn and apply, and there have been many times that lower skilled grapplers have submitted higher skilled ones with this choke. Its very basic, yet very effective.

  7. #7

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanx dudes.

    I'm away to STFU and train.

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