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  1. _Mick_ is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/09/2006 8:24pm


     Style: Hapkido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In Hapkido we used practice a drill in which the attacker uses a piece of chalk like a knife. The goal of the defender was to stay alive. The drill was one of my favorites. It teaches you that if the attacker has a knife, you are screwed. I felt like a learned much more doing that drill than just practicing various knife defenses.
  2. Plasma is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/09/2006 8:49pm

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     Style: 柔術

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    We practice Knife Defenses through Knife Sparriing. Then if you don't have a knife do the same evasion and block using a empty hand. Its again, learn through sparring argument.

    Any one who is not full of **** shouldn't have their own "knife defenses". You should be able to fight and use what you learn regardless if their opponent has a weapon or not.

    After saying that ....... "X-block Kiai!"
  3. Aesopian is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/10/2006 3:09pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The last two posters can eat dick.

    As Matt pointed out, there are several good self defense programs that train realistically for funtionality. I would also recommend checking out ISR Matrix, again by SBG. It offers different systems for civilian and law enforcement (since the duties and responses of each one differs, i.e. you can run away while an officer may have to make an arrest.)

    This from the ISR site may lend itself to answering your question:
    The essential elements from Greco Roman Wrestling, Free Style Wrestling, Judo, Western Boxing, Muay Thai Kick Boxing, and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu that originally went into the matrix years ago, are now due to training within the rules and regulations of law enforcement, so much a part of, intertwined and laced throughout the force continuum that trying to mark where combative sport ends and law enforcement tactics begins would be an intellectually painful lesson in futility.
    Realize that aliveness is not exclusive to sport fighting, though sport fighting lends itself particularly well to aliveness. Training with realistic timing, energy and motion can be applied anywhere: BJJ, MMA, stand-up, clinch, self defense, stike fighting, knife defense and even firearms. Those that make the mistake of thinking that aliveness is in oppositition to self defense are probably still stuck in the same street vs sport and MMA vs TMA debates that define them as retards.
  4. saturnjunkie is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/10/2006 3:58pm


     Style: FMA & judo-ultra noob

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I still love attackproof.com's "method of realistic knife defense"... personally I think the break dancing attack of doom againt compliant opponents is far superior to chalk knife fighting any day. You know, for real world combat situations.

    :homo:

    Really though, it sounds like the chalk knife thing is nothing more than shotokan point fighting with weapons. Do they throw in monty python rules too?


    Ultimately I guess the point is your art can never be alive ENOUGH. Experience is a fantastic teacher and your best experience is as full contact weapon/open hand fighting. The more actual experience you have, the more you know what works and what doesn't in ACTUAL experience - the rest is just theory.
  5. Shuma-Gorath is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/10/2006 4:11pm

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     Style: BJJ - Homeland Security

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by saturnjunkie
    The more actual experience you have, the more you know what works and what doesn't in ACTUAL experience - the rest is just theory.
    The problem is that most of you are using Alchemy to SBG's Chemistry.
  6. Plasma is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/10/2006 8:22pm

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     Style: 柔術

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Aesopian
    The last two posters can eat dick.

    As Matt pointed out, there are several good self defense programs that train realistically for funtionality. I would also recommend checking out ISR Matrix, again by SBG. It offers different systems for civilian and law enforcement (since the duties and responses of each one differs, i.e. you can run away while an officer may have to make an arrest.)

    This from the ISR site may lend itself to answering your question:
    The essential elements from Greco Roman Wrestling, Free Style Wrestling, Judo, Western Boxing, Muay Thai Kick Boxing, and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu that originally went into the matrix years ago, are now due to training within the rules and regulations of law enforcement, so much a part of, intertwined and laced throughout the force continuum that trying to mark where combative sport ends and law enforcement tactics begins would be an intellectually painful lesson in futility.
    Realize that aliveness is not exclusive to sport fighting, though sport fighting lends itself particularly well to aliveness. Training with realistic timing, energy and motion can be applied anywhere: BJJ, MMA, stand-up, clinch, self defense, stike fighting, knife defense and even firearms. Those that make the mistake of thinking that aliveness is in oppositition to self defense are probably still stuck in the same street vs sport and MMA vs TMA debates that define them as retards.
    So you are suggesting at a style that does full contact knife fighting has no chance of defending themselves against a knife and should "eat dick"?

    Holy ****, your just an idiot.
  7. _Mick_ is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/10/2006 8:43pm


     Style: Hapkido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by saturnjunkie
    I still love attackproof.com's "method of realistic knife defense"... personally I think the break dancing attack of doom againt compliant opponents is far superior to chalk knife fighting any day. You know, for real world combat situations.

    :homo:

    Really though, it sounds like the chalk knife thing is nothing more than shotokan point fighting with weapons. Do they throw in monty python rules too?


    Ultimately I guess the point is your art can never be alive ENOUGH. Experience is a fantastic teacher and your best experience is as full contact weapon/open hand fighting. The more actual experience you have, the more you know what works and what doesn't in ACTUAL experience - the rest is just theory.
    I cant think of any more realistic way to train knife defense, other than using rea knives. And since most people donít enjoy getting stabbed, chalk is a much more convenient. It is a live drill, not one step sparing or anything like that. The chalk just shows exactly if and where you have been hit.

    Besides, if an attacker has a knife you are going to get cut. It doesnít matter if you are a MMA badass who stomped the **** out of Tito Ortiz. The guy with the knife will win 99% of the time.
  8. Ryno is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/10/2006 8:57pm


     Style: FMA, Jujutsu/Judo/SAMBO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Use tazers for knife sparring. Not the kind that shoot, the kind that you hold and zap. I believe someone has started manufacturing a dummy blade that carries the current, giving you more of an edge to work with. Even a normal tazer works pretty well though.

    They hurt like a sob when you get stuck or "cut", but you learn to fight through it. They pretty much force you into a more realistic reaction when someone is trying to stick you with one. Plus they are very cheap.
  9. Aesopian is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/10/2006 9:04pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KageKaze
    So you are suggesting at a style that does full contact knife fighting has no chance of defending themselves against a knife and should "eat dick"?
    Do you both get knives when you do this fantasy training?
  10. Meex is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/10/2006 9:28pm

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     Style: Tao Ga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Knife fighting and traing for self-defense against a knife are two different things.
    In most self-defense situations, you, or someone with you has been stabbed,
    and you now have to figure out how you are going to survive.

    If you are attacked by someone with a knife, you are going to get cut. However,
    you can survive. The first time I was attacked with a knife, my aikido training
    almost got me killed. The guy approached, and flashed his knife for effect. But,
    my (supreme confidece in my having faced many knives, swords, and all manner
    of weapons in my aikido and karate training) mannerism (I just looked at him
    and waited for the attack) must have changed his mind about a demand, and he
    just started slicing and dicing (omg, that's not how he's supposed to attack!).

    Well, as my instictive aikido took over, and I entered, going for the knife hand,
    he (very rudely!) sliced my palm, back-cut my forearrm, sliced at my wrist, and cut
    into the back of my forearm. . .all in about a second. As my brain rebelled, he flicked
    a chunk out of my bicept.

    Good thing I didn't only train in aikido. . .

    The judo, and bagwork took over, and I survived this encounter. I also began my
    search for training to make sure this didn't happen again. FMA, CMA, knife-specific
    training, a look into rbsd-type training. . .it still happened.

    Another city, another knife attack, another bunch of cuts. Still, I did survive. And, I
    was better prepared.

    My conclusion?
    The only to not to get cut is to not be there.
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