Thread: "Royal Dragon" Who Is He???
1/12/2006 8:00pm, #61
- Join Date
- Sep 2002
Sorry for not replying sooner but I've been busy with more important things, you know; life, work and family. The things that truly matter.
I openly and honestly concede that there are probably a few areas I could improve in. This is but one of the pursuits of those involved in the martial arts. After all, nobody's perfect are they?
There are some physical issues and problems ( a lower bad back which causes me grief from time to time to name but one) that forces me to compensate for but it is a work in progress .... again nobody's perfect and I''ll be the first to admit it. But this is half the battle. To work, to strive forward is the constant aim nof ALL Martial artists.
Anyway, moving on, "Royal Dragon" the reason I asked about who you were is because someone using your moniker went to my web site guest book and proceeded to attack my self and students using the most foulest of language. I simply wanted to know who you were if it was indeed you who signed my web site guest book.
I really have no issue with you as witnessed by my recent e-mail communication to you on 08/01/06 in which I stated:
I feel that we may have gotten off on the wrong foot and would like to start afresh if possible.
Firstly, you have me at a slight disadvantage as you know my name but I do not know yours.
Secondly, regardless of your opinion of my technique which would be hard to ascertain from still photo's I am a White Crane stylist of some 33 years experience and I can assure you that the Shihequan (Feeding Crane) and Minghequan (Calling Crane) style is unlike that which you would have been exposed to before, In fact, leaning into the technique ("Turtle Back") is encouraged within the basics of Shihequan (also known as Secret Fist). That aside, I feel that we should look to that which brings us closer together than to that which separates us.
I hope that you and I can start afresh and work together in some small way for the betterment of the martial arts.
I have some interesting VCD and DVD material on both Yong Chun White Crane and Great Master Ruan Dong's Calling Crane if you'd be interested in swapping material. Please let me know and your direct mailing address and we can take it from there. I'd love to see some footage of your style as I personally prefer the softer, internal aspects of the art and direct my studies and research in this area.
Regarding Mr. Scuffell, well all I seek is the truth. He has made some rather lofty claims to lineage in both Tai Zhu and White Crane. I am not on some sort of "witch hunt" but simply seek validation of his claims. If he learnt from video then simply be honest and say so and more credit would go towards him for his honesty.
I look forward to your reply in the near future and I hope we may become good friends in the future.
Ron Goninan ~ Director/Chairman
White Crane Research Institute
Member: Martial Arts Industry Association
Wushu Guan, 9 Short Street
Wellington. NSW. 2820.
Web Site: http://home.austrarnet.com.au/tsuruken
It is interesting to note that I have Jamie Scuffell on video tape praising myself and students in our ability to pick up his teaching and praising our learning ability!!! Perhaps you's also like a copy of this footage in the interest of fairness?
Things only turned sour with Jamie when I simply asked for verification of his claim to be a lineage holder of White Crane. Sadly, his tune changed and he then became extremely nasty and critical.
Of interest and a matter of fact is the video I have of Jamie Scuffell attempting to perform the most basic of his forms (San Zhan) which saw him make three unsuccessful attempts at completing the form and even then it was sadly alacklutre performance. He then went on to stuff up the basic pole form. This was follwed by chain smoking a series of cigarettes while waxing lyrical about just how accomplished and knowledgeable he was!!! Talk about humility and a lack of ego!
Perhaps I should make this footage available all over the internet!
This is whay I asked if you have actually met Mr. Scuffell.
Lastly, Ithank you for publishing photo's of yourself. It gives me some idea of the person in question and I respect that.
I am not going to comment on your "performance" in the photo's (although I could name a few areas) as I realise that they may have been taken at differing angles and also that we are all human and therefore not perfect.
It is my hope that we could have simply became friends and communicated with each other openly and honestly.
Last edited by tsuruken; 1/12/2006 8:35pm at .
1/12/2006 8:05pm, #62
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- Sep 2002
Humbly examining the stance in question: Please refer to the image found at:
Let’s look closely at the Feihe Jugong (Flying Crane Crossed-Leg Stance). An eminent foe for people in this so-called “Modern Society” is stress. Used as a Chi-Gung posture this stance can be used to relieve tension and stress. This is accomplished as the posture; held for a period of time, will relieve the heaviness in the chest region due to stress. As the excess energy travels away from the centre to the hands it is dispersed through the middle and the ring and small fingers as well (Try the posture in a relaxed manner to relieve stress in a fashion to Taiji’s Chi-Gung practices)
That said, let’s focus on how to use this same posture martially as well. This enigmatic posture transmit’s the Yin Fire Element into the hands to disperse into the adversary with devastating effects.
The twisted stance actually focuses the energy rising (Yin) to a stronger degree, transmitting this energy up from the Bubbling Well Point/Gushing Spring (“Yangquan” - K1) and out to the hands. The energy rises to the chest (CV-17, “Shanzong” - Penetrating Odor) and via the outstretched arms, is channeled out to the Laogong point (Labor’s Palace - PC-8) and the last three fingers of the hands (Try the posture for your own self investigation).
In a martial sense the striking hands would best be aimed at Fire or Metal related points. Again studying the posture we see the hands are positioned at head to neck levels and as such are the intended targets are mapped out in this dermatone. Sighting a few of these points for the sake of brevity, include the ST-5 (Daiyang - Big Welcome), ST-9 (Renying - Man’s Welcome), GB-4 (Hanyan - Satisfying Jaw) and GB-14 (Yangbai - Yang White).
Before you say “some of those art Earth points” … I must add that you are correct, yet these are also intersections of other energies and availability as well. The ST-5 is a crossing of the Large Intestine and Stomach Meridians and therefore takes on Metal characteristics as well. The downward hand maps out the angle and direction to affect with a this point with a strike downward and to the side, using Yin fire in the palm and palm-edge to intensify the strike.
ST-9 relates to the heart when accessed downward … Using the last three fingers (all of which a re Fire, Pericardium, Triple Warmer, Heart), we can see the energetic, angle of attack and weapon in posture. Pulling the opponent into the attack with the rear wing hand will take the opponent off balance as the rapid twist of the hips creates torque that has more strength than straight on pulling. This will also pull the one side out of play while simultaneously forwarding the attack.
An attack or penetrative strike to the “Man Welcome’s point (ST-9) as reflected within the Bronze Man Statue of the Bubishi is but one of the available strikes which this technique affords.
In addition an attack to GB-14 (Yangbai - Yang White) in the depression of the superciliary ridge will have devastating effects. This point is the intersection of the Stomach and Yang linking channels. A strike here can result on knockout or even death.
An aspect of the stance is within its Ground-Reaction-Force and Body-Energy-Meridian- Alignment. The stance is centred as the person twists to take up the position. One is also “grounded” by using the opponents body. What you have to remember is that we are talking about combat and not some outward exhibition designed to impress 10 year old Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle fans!.
This technique is high in the White Crane “Body-Change” and “Change-Body” Principles with the defender taking a step to the side thus taking the practitioner off-line from the opponents incoming force, limiting the reaction time of the opponent and allowing the practitioner to deliver a life-protection response in a devastating manner. The twisted stance is to be done as that strike is deployed on target feeding increased Yin energy into the selected target.
Twisted leg stances such as this not only consolidate energy transfer but may also be used to trap the opponents leg. When trapping the leg many points may be activated weakening the other corresponding points in the body. One such response would involve the Bladder and Stomach meridians on the lower body attacked to set up a palm strike to CV-12 (Zongwan - Middle Cavity) or CV-14 (Juque - Great Palace). According to the 5 Element theory of traditional Chinese medicine, the Earth controls the Water which in turn controls the Fire. CV-14 is not only a Yin Fire point but also the alarm point of the Heart. The hands held in posture at Chest level indicates the angle, direction and dermantone of the body that is targeted. This is a very serious attach at minimum able to cause arrhythmia of the heart resulting in a knockout or possible death.
This is but a few applications of this so called “posture” whose practicality lies not within its “performance” but its actual application.
1/12/2006 8:20pm, #63
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- Sep 2002
A sample of what others who have to say about the White Crane Research Institute Director/Chairman Ron Goninan. Surely all these people can't be wrong!:
NOTE: (All testimonials are on file. All persons are contactable):
Great Master Ruan Dong of Calling Crane Fuzhou, China said: "Ron Goninan has strong Chi."
The highly regarded Shaolin-Fists/Five Ancestors Fist Master, Sifu Yap Leong wrote: "I am much honoured and accept the privilege to be made Senior Technical Master/Adviser to you and your association. If I can be of help I will gladly do so. I do not mind being an adviser in your association. Hope your group is progressing well."
Master Erle Montaigue of the World Taiji Boxing Association had this to say of Goninan: "I have known Ron Goninan for sometime and he is a serious martial artist who wishes to help his students to gain whatever it is that they are looking for from their training".
Matt Henderson, South Eastern Regional Director Okinawan Goju-Ryu Karatedo Seibukai said: "After much consideration and exploration, I feel you have progressed farther in the study of White Crane, and can take me higher in knowledge of the style than anyone outside of Okinawa or China".
Kevin Brennan, Editor of Australasian Fighting Arts Magazine said: "Your one of the few gentlemen of the martial arts".
Kempo-Ryu International Karate Organization Chairman Peter Mylonas Shihan writes: "I have had the pleasure of personally knowing Mr. Goninan over the last year and have found him to be a talented, educated and respected martial artist. His reputation within our industry is one of high standard, with our peers constantly praising his efforts and good reputable message to the community about the true values of the martial arts".
Kevin Blundell of the Kumiai-Ryu Martial Arts System had this to say: "Ron's study of the Martial Arts is to be admired for both its intensity and dedication. The integrity of Mr. Ron Goninan is beyond reproach and any dealings he has with people are conducted with honesty and enthusiasm".
Karate Instructor Alf Pace 3rd Dan Sensei said: "In all my years, I have never encountered a martial arts master with as much skill and knowledge as Ron Goninan and it is certain that I will not encounter anyone like Ron in the future".
David Walker, B.Th.;Dip.Min.;Cs.Dip and the Principal of the Cornerstone Christian College said: "In the martial arts arena, Ron's commitment to research and an honest and down to earth approach has made him one of the most knowledgeable and sought after instructors in the country".
Paul Gurney - Dip Teach MIAME and Martial Arts Instructor say's: "Ron has demonstrated a never tiring dedication, development and understanding of the Martial Arts. He has an incredible depth of knowledge. I feel what really makes Ron stand out from others is that he sees himself as a person and not as a martial artist".
Karatedo 5th Dan, Graeme Bingham said: "Ron is one of the most devoted, experienced and knowledgeable practitioners of the martial arts that I have come across".
Australian Black Belt Instructor, Tony Pryor said: "Ron has always conducted himself with honesty and integrity, and I am proud to have him as a friend and teacher".
Kokoro-Ryu Bujutsu-Kan Instructor and 7th Dan Black Belt, Wayne Hanley said this about Goninan:"As a colleague in the Martial Arts I feel that his technical skill and knowledge is of the highest standard, his willingness and ability to pass on this knowledge, and his dedication to his art would be a credit to any instructor". I have personally known Sifu Ron Goninan, of the White Crane Research Institute for over 6 years. As a colleague in the Martial Arts I feel his technical skill and knowledge is of the highest standard. His willingness and ability to pass on this knowledge, and his dedication to his students and his art would be a credit to any instructor. It is without any reservation that I supply this reference.
James Sumarac Kyoshi, 7th Dan Senior Sudent of Ohtsuka Tadahiko Hanshi of Gojukensha Karatedo said: "I believe you to be hard working and serious in your discipline".
Fernando Portela Camara, 7th Dan of the Traditonal Shorieji-Kan Gokenki-Ha wrote on Dec 30, 1999: "I consider Mr. Goninan a man with great knowledge and skill in Hakutsuru Kenpo, an excellent character and a dedicated master. I am convinced that Mr. Goninan is the most outstanding non-oriental White Crane-Fist Specialist".
Shifu Arnold Buenviaje, Chief instructor - Ling Ming Martial Arts Association, Chief instructor - Ling Nam Athletic Federation and White Crane Kung-Fu Master said: "I have visited your website and found it quite informative and I am impressed by the depth of your knowledge about the White Crane Fist in the Chinese martial arts style. It is very seldom to find someone like you to be so well rounded in martial arts and with such dedication in pursue to the development of one's arts. I am most happy to share with you with what I know. We can continue exchanging our technique".
Walt Missingham, Chairman of the Martial Arts Industry Association said: "Mr. Ron Goninan is an associate member in good standing with the MAIA and is an accredited martial arts instructor with the MAIA, his accreditation number is 1009."
Paul Clifton, Editor of England's Traditional Karate Magazine said of Goninan's research into Crane-Fist: "Ron is a well-known martial artist who is doing a lot of research in this area. He is rapidly gaining great notoriety for his work around the world".
John C Gray of Bridgeton, USA said: "You are a Leading Master in the Western World on the subject of Crane-Fist".
Alan Wolfenden of Tsubokai Kenpo, England said: "You have helped me with the historical side of the art a great deal and you have gone out of your way with time and effort on more than one occasion now, so I feel that I can trust you enough to be a member of your organisation without any of the downfalls that I have experienced in the past. Let me thank you whole heartedly for all of your help, I really didn't expect so much ".
Glyn Jones Goju-Ryu England wrote: "Thank you, for everything, your advice & guidance etc. My thoughts and considerations were and still are only ever with the correct teachings and preservation of Tsuruken. This is where those really interested in the Crane Arts need YOU! I'll bring you a bottle of the best scotch, pure heaven"
Robert Slywa Renshi of the Okinawan Isshinryu Karate Association Australia said: "To appreciate the man you must meet the man. Until I did, I was unsure of his direction but it took 5 minutes with him to feel his energy toward his art and students. He makes you WANT to train and listen. He is a fine example of what a martial artist should be and strive for".
8th Dan Ken Yu Kan Goju Master Alex de Araya said: "His achievements, and his efforts to promote the way of the warriors, makes him a very prolific and respected Master in his own right. His knowledge of Ancient martial arts including the Tsuruken and White Crane Fist is unmatched in Oceania, and has been given the honour of representing these styles as the Head and successor of the founders".
Sifu Garry Spencer of the Australian Shaolin Kempo Academy said: “You are a great martial arts practitioner with tremendous ability, a fresh and inspiring attitude, plus, an amazing knowledge of so many of the martial art's. Watching you in action was really great. You are one of nature's true gentlemen! A good friend that I am proud to have met. You can guarantee that the Australian Shaolin Kempo Academy and the KOBGK Paihequan International shall remain bonded through our mutual friendship and our love of the arts. Sifu Ron is an excellent Sifu! He has an awesome knowledge of the arts and is a great role model to his pupils who have a tremendous respect for him. Sifu Ron has traveled extensively to Asia and is adept in many arts, cultures, and martial ways. Ron is also a healer with a sound knowledge of the healing arts. I am proud to have Sifu Ron as a friend and a martial brother.
Sifu Stone of the Southland Xue Xiao wrote: A provocative document from a radical Master whose commitment to the warrior-scholar way is a challenge to every martial arts student.
Master Healer & Spiritualist Leonie Faye wrote: "You are a strong spiritual being"
Bujutsu International Martial Arts Magazine wrote: “One of Australia's most knowledgeable Martial Artist”.
Sifu Tim White wrote: "Ron, is a Noted Martial Arts Writer. He is very knowledgeable in the White Crane System. He is a great pen pal and I like they way he thinks. Ron, best of luck Sifu".
Peter Evans Shihan of the United Kingdom wrote: I'm glad to retain and progress with my membership of the White Crane Research Society. You are a good man, with a good heart who I am proud to class as a FRIEND within, and outside of the Martial Arts.
Last edited by tsuruken; 1/12/2006 8:23pm at .
1/12/2006 8:36pm, #64
edit: I attatched the wrong pic the first time.
You are sooooo not helping your case with that post. Going on about a bunch of accupoints is just inviting more ridicule here.
Let's start with what we were actually making fun of since we really don't know WTF you are talking about with all your TCM/Dim Mak mumbo jumbo and since you can't seem to get your basics down, even those of us who MIGHT care a bit about that aren't going to do anything but laugh when you go on about it.
1/12/2006 8:40pm, #65
- Join Date
- Sep 2002
Just expressing one point of view. No offence meant. This is the diversity of this thing called "martial arts" and indeed humanity to be able to express differing viewpoints. We all have something to learn and should look for that which brings us closer together rather than that which separates us
Last edited by tsuruken; 1/12/2006 8:45pm at .
1/12/2006 8:46pm, #66Originally Posted by Omar
1/12/2006 10:03pm, #67
- Join Date
- Jul 2002
There are more problem with his posture too. His chest is open, and his butt is sticking out. He can describe what the postures are for, but can't do them correctly, so they won't do him any good.
On the back issue, my back was completely fried and my doctors told me to hang up Kung Fu for good. I was told therapy would not work as the tears in my disks were too bad and I would need surgery. I took charge of my own healing, even writing my own therapy routines and had my doc. sign off on them. Look at my pix and tell me your excuses again?
As for posting video, not a bad idea.
As for the person trash talking you under my name, I would like to see that. Include and IP address if possible. I have never been to your site until you started trouble with my martial family totally out of the clear blue sky (my Tai tzu brother, Sifu and me personally).
It's not my style to swear, or get vulgar. I debate on the issues and let others hang themselves. All I do is shed light on thier own behavior. If you are doing nothing wrong, I can't hurt you, but if you are, I don't need to as you do it to yourself. I just show others where to look.
1/12/2006 11:47pm, #68
I specifically avoided drawing a circle around the low back area as I am not familiar with Taizu and I know that it is common in Changquan to let the but hang out and all that. I didn't want to assume that IMA rules applied to a Taizu posture.
1/12/2006 11:48pm, #69
- Join Date
- Jul 2002
Also, as for the pic of what is wrong, lets look at more problems shall we?
I drew lines showing the "Shape" of your body structure. I also took the pic you sent me of the Chinese master and drew his. You will notice that YOUR structure is 180 BACKWARDS in comparison to the picture of the master in the book you e-mailed me. You will also notice that MINE matches his quite nicely even though the actual posture is different.
Yours is all squared back, where as mine and the Matsers are nice and rounded. You will see in the diagram you sent me that the spine is stright, not arched back. The spine itself is only stright when you have the rounded body posture shown by the master, and the pic of me. This is a matter of physics. Propper spinal position is what connects the body. It is created by the rounding of the shoulders, and tucking of the tail bone. You donot do this. You are out of alingnment in every way. This makes you completely disconnected, and renders your entire training useless.
This is why i say you have such poor fundementals. The structure is the first thing you must get if you are going to be good at Kung Fu. If I was your teacher, I would totally STOP any and all training you are doing, go back to the day one fundementals, and make you do only that and build body mechanics for a good 9 months to a year.
We "Might" do a beginner level form in a month or two "IF" you show considerable improvement. You would get one form only, the applications to that, but only as a tool to teach you the structure and mechanics. Once you have that, and ONLY then would we start free sparring and get into fighting.
Anything prior would be single and two man drills, not full forms, as well as pre arranged technique practice to help strengthen your mechcanics and structure (so it is someday natural in a fully free form enviorment). I would most likely start two man work right away though, as it gves feed back to help you identify and correct structural issues early on. You would be in for some long, difficult and boring lessons for a long time.
Last edited by Royal Dragon; 1/13/2006 12:07am at .
1/12/2006 11:54pm, #70
- Join Date
- Jul 2002
Actually, internal rules apply to ALL Chinese arts. Just becasue they are not commonly taught to the general public does not mean the style does not contain them.
Also, if you know your history, Tai Tzu was a precursor to Chen Taiji Quan...Chen evolved from Tai tzu (Northern branch)..
Tai Tzu is VERY old, and has a number of branches. The most common resemble Cha Fist and Hong Fist, but other lines are more internal, and conform to Taoist internal principals just like any other internal art. it depends on wheher the line deseded from a Shaolin/Military branch, or the imperial family itself (the internal)