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  1. Omar is offline

    Baji demigod.

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    Posted On:
    1/19/2006 3:12am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Chinese Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    p.s.

    That really low one legged "empty" stance that RD posted way back is something I kind of put in the same category as a full split. I admire the amount of work it takes to do one. I recognize the advantages that that particular ability has but in the end of the day when I do my personal cost/benifit analysis I tend to decide it's not worth it. My time is better spent working on other things.

    A lot of stance work is like that.
    Fighting evil and upholding justice in blue silk pajamas baby!
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=UGaYD_wcaIg

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=6Uepo9ahg-M

    Bah!!! Puny Humans.


  2. Omar is offline

    Baji demigod.

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    Posted On:
    1/19/2006 3:13am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Chinese Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Megalef,

    lol about KFDW.

    And to your question, not me anyways. Not on this board and not in the current atmosphere. I like the idea though.

    btw,

    On posture:

    http://www.shouyuliang.com/newsletter/v1n1/v1n1a5.shtml

    Every single stance on this page could go on the "stances of disaster" thread. There is not one shred of combat value to a single pic there. OTOH, there is lots of value in most of the stances they show...just not like that. Those are the shitty wushu versions. It's not about how low you go. Proper stance training is more about posture than about going low.
    Last edited by Omar; 1/19/2006 3:17am at .
    Fighting evil and upholding justice in blue silk pajamas baby!
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=UGaYD_wcaIg

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=6Uepo9ahg-M

    Bah!!! Puny Humans.


  3. meng_mao is offline
    meng_mao's Avatar

    software engineer

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    Westford, MA
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    2,007

    Posted On:
    1/19/2006 3:18am

    supporting member
     Style: kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Omar
    p.s.

    That really low one legged "empty" stance that RD posted way back is something I kind of put in the same category as a full split. I admire the amount of work it takes to do one. I recognize the advantages that that particular ability has but in the end of the day when I do my personal cost/benifit analysis I tend to decide it's not worth it. My time is better spent working on other things.

    A lot of stance work is like that.
    What % of stances in an art (any you have familiarity with) are essential, or combat-applicable?
  4. Omar is offline

    Baji demigod.

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    Posted On:
    1/19/2006 3:31am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Chinese Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hung Gar uses 5 stances:

    - square
    - bow
    - twist
    - empty
    - pideon toed.

    All applicable and usefull. Essential? I'd be hard pressed to discard any of them the most essential IMO are probably the square and bow. Transitioning between those two is where you get the lions share of your power in the lions share of the techniques. You don't sit in either or fight from either but the basic switch between them is how you get power out from the legs through the waist and into the hands.

    Baji -

    Harder to count them down. There's so many wierd ass postures. It's almost more important to do some stance training at the beggining with Baji than with Hung Gar because the body dynamics feel so fucking unnatural at first so it really pays to get comfortable in postition. Main ones are the "stabbing elbow", which is just a modified "square horse", the bow and the 60-40 (rear to front leg weight ratio).

    But they are used totally differently. Baji doesn't work from waist rotation as much as Hung Gar. It's more focused on the short power as described by JFS about a month ago and on slamming your whole body forward so your torso can connect with the other guy from hips to shoulder all at once.

    The Baji stuff I mentioned are all HIGHLY applicable but then I could think of a bit more "chaff" in that Baji "stances" than in Hung Gar. The best value I have found in some of them was just in helping me to learn how to emit full body power independant of being "set" or "planeted". You have to understand how the short power can be pretty independant of leg plcaement or what not. Baji has more stances which you will never see in combat because they are actually the follow through on moves where you made contact with the other guy about 2 feet backwards in the move. You ingrain THAT position as your goal and the other guy just gets in the way.
    Fighting evil and upholding justice in blue silk pajamas baby!
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=UGaYD_wcaIg

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=6Uepo9ahg-M

    Bah!!! Puny Humans.


  5. JFS USA is offline

    Converter of Virgins

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    Posted On:
    1/19/2006 5:33am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: H'ung Ga & SPM

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyS
    So can we get some answers from Omar, Royal Dragon and JFS on what they believe the point of stance training is, and whether it's worth it?
    Progression ... necessay phase to pass through ... baby steps ... roll over, sit up, crawl, walk, then & only then ... run.
  6. Royal Dragon is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    1/19/2006 8:59pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    At first the stance is to build strength, but once you can hold 3 or ore minutes it is becomes more of a musular endurance exercise. The more muscular endurance you have, the less you tax your cardio.

    All that considered, i feel stance training is really about connecting your structure, so you can keep proper alignment during power issueing. This type of training is done in tandem with mechanics training. You may hold postures for a lengthof time, then start to move through them to get the mechanics right. Then onto two man drills so you can use the structure and mechanics against resistance. The idea is to progressively build the mechanics and structure so it is second nature to allways be in the strongest position when facing and agressive opponent. In martial arts, It's not a stand alone thing.

    HOWEVER, as a stand alone exercise it's a great workout, good for buiding mental toughness, joint and ligament strength and a whole host of other things similar to Yoga.

    I have Gout, which is basically a metobilic arthritis that is razor sharp glass like crystals forming in the joints. When I have an attack I all I can do is posture hold, as moving would sand down cartilaige, which is how my Empty stance got so good.
  7. Royal Dragon is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    1/22/2006 11:40pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    http://martialtalk.com/forum/printthread.php?t=8083

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Ron Goninan
    To: Patrick McCarthy
    Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2003 12:14 PM

    To Mr. Patrick McCarthy,
    Please find enclosed my sincere letter of personal apology for the years of slander, underhanded behaviour and plagiarizing your copyrighted work.
    Having long suffered a lack of self-esteem, I have always wanted to be something I was not. An inflated ego fueled my ambition to seek out the kind of mail-order recognition that I could easily use to establish a guise of importance, made me feel important. Coming from a small community in country NSW, this worked particularly well and made me appear as if I were a big fish in a small bowl. Jumping from style to style over the years presented an opportunity for me to misrepresent my actual experience with each new instructor I met. So used to this did I become that I even began to believe it myself. Writing articles for martial arts magazines helped to generate a little more publicity, which not only solidified my opinion of myself it also gave me another way with which to accredited myself. My martial arts studies have been both diverse and dotted with false claims of outlandish rank from un-credible sources. I actually purchased a *Soke* rank from Rod Sarconoski's Juko-kai for $1500, and then several years later accepted an 8th dan Hanshi license from a complete charlatan in Okinawa named Takaya Yabiku, after only ever training with him once. It's probably of little interest to you, but this long and lonely road has finally caught up to me and I am now choosing to expose all, in an effort to escape the enormous chain anxiety that is negatively effecting every aspect of the life I truly want to live.
    I have knowingly carried out self-aggrandizing, unscrupulous and underhanded activities all in an effort to establish a reputation for myself, undermine your good name and protect my untenable background. I now regret this greatly. Such activities have included making pseudonym e-mail addresses in order to praise myself and criticize you, deliberately plagiarize your copyrighted material and present it as if it was my own, undermining your enviable reputation, and fabricating a history that did not accurately reflect my true martial arts background.
    I would like it to be known that I am renouncing all the derogatory comments that I have either said or written about you. It was just plain wrong and, as untrustworthy as I have been in the past, I am now appealing to your compassion to forgive me for my reprehensible actions.
    In truth, I am a great admirer or your accomplishments within the field of the martial arts and have, like so many others, been inspired by your work. I greatly admire your way of doing things, your research, the way you write, and the way in which you operate your organization. You've really had more of an influence on me then you may know. In a great many ways I have set you as a personal idol of mine. I idolized your work and the respect that was afforded to you and often wished to "be just like you." I guess that this is fairly evident. The problem was the way that I (incorrectly) set about to model my own life on yourself and your own research.
    It is my sincere hope and desire that you will accept my apology. Whatever hardships I am presently undergoing are purely the results of my own doing and my family have suffered enough shame and heartbreak as a result of my deplorable actions. I beg that you accept this and allow me the opportunity to work towards coming clean and "making it right again," without the threat of litigation looming over my head.
    Sincerely,
    Ron Goninan
    ------------------------------------------------------
  8. Royal Dragon is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    1/22/2006 11:43pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ronnie looks like you are going back to your true form ehy?

    Seems you have a pattern that won't subside in your life?

    Give it up, and spend the next 18 months working your basics, you might actually gain a bit of respect...from someone...
  9. Royal Dragon is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    1/22/2006 11:51pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    OOOH, OOH ONE MORE!!


    http://martialtalk.com/forum/printth...3&page=4&pp=15

    Ron,
    It seems that promise to turn over a new leaf has already been broken. Man! It hasn't even been a month! That's gotta be a record for you Ron.

    I submit this from your own BBs that you posted..........note the date of the post on this page:
    http://www.aimoo.com/forum/postview....hreadID=705380
    (by the way......I emailed that page to myself just in case you decide to change it after reading this)

    Date Posted: 05/25/2003 11:59 AM

    Tony: To answer, I was with Yabiku Sensei for around 9 or so years, communicating in person and spending some time training with him on Okinawa. Yabiku-san is an interesting character. Some say he is only a "Taxi Driver", that his ranks are not legitimate but I prefer to judge someone on floor and not by the belt they wear around their waist or the Menjo they have hanging on the wall.The training itself was very relaxed and informal, no uniforms or belts just Kata and Bunkai for 7 hours a day which was then followed by a visit to Okinawan cultural sights of interest as I believe he was very proud of his culture.He is a hard trainer, lots of repitition and guidance, yet open, relaxed and friendly. He has and openly admits to adding of himself to that which he does and I respect that in a person.As for the Okinawan Culture section, all you would have to do is simply moderate the discussion that may take place, answer some questions or make some posts. I'll wait for your decision before going ahead with it.Regards, Ron Goninan KOBGK Paihequan Wuyangkuan International

    ____________________________________________

    And now we can see the "real" Ron Goninan........
    This is the letter you wrote to Patrick McCarthy..........note the training time with Yabiku..........one day wasn't it?

    Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2003 12:14 PM

    To Mr. Patrick McCarthy,
    Please find enclosed my sincere letter of personal apology for the years of slander, underhanded behaviour and plagiarizing your copyrighted work.
    Having long suffered a lack of self-esteem, I have always wanted to be something I was not. An inflated ego fueled my ambition to seek out the kind of mail-order recognition that I could easily use to establish a guise of importance, made me feel important. Coming from a small community in country NSW, this worked particularly well and made me appear as if I were a big fish in a small bowl. Jumping from style to style over the years presented an opportunity for me to misrepresent my actual experience with each new instructor I met. So used to this did I become that I even began to believe it myself. Writing articles for martial arts magazines helped to generate a little more publicity, which not only solidified my opinion of myself it also gave me another way with which to accredited myself. My martial arts studies have been both diverse and dotted with false claims of outlandish rank from un-credible sources. I actually purchased a *Soke* rank from Rod Sarconoski's Juko-kai for $1500, and then several years later accepted an 8th dan Hanshi license from a complete charlatan in Okinawa named Takaya Yabiku, after only ever training with him once. It's probably of little interest to you, but this long and lonely road has finally caught up to me and I am now choosing to expose all, in an effort to escape the enormous chain anxiety that is negatively effecting every aspect of the life I truly want to live.
    I have knowingly carried out self-aggrandizing, unscrupulous and underhanded activities all in an effort to establish a reputation for myself, undermine your good name and protect my untenable background. I now regret this greatly. Such activities have included making pseudonym e-mail addresses in order to praise myself and criticize you, deliberately plagiarize your copyrighted material and present it as if it was my own, undermining your enviable reputation, and fabricating a history that did not accurately reflect my true martial arts background.
    I would like it to be known that I am renouncing all the derogatory comments that I have either said or written about you. It was just plain wrong and, as untrustworthy as I have been in the past, I am now appealing to your compassion to forgive me for my reprehensible actions.
    In truth, I am a great admirer or your accomplishments within the field of the martial arts and have, like so many others, been inspired by your work. I greatly admire your way of doing things, your research, the way you write, and the way in which you operate your organization. You've really had more of an influence on me then you may know. In a great many ways I have set you as a personal idol of mine. I idolized your work and the respect that was afforded to you and often wished to "be just like you." I guess that this is fairly evident. The problem was the way that I (incorrectly) set about to model my own life on yourself and your own research.
    It is my sincere hope and desire that you will accept my apology. Whatever hardships I am presently undergoing are purely the results of my own doing and my family have suffered enough shame and heartbreak as a result of my deplorable actions. I beg that you accept this and allow me the opportunity to work towards coming clean and "making it right again," without the threat of litigation looming over my head.
    Sincerely,
    Ron Goninan
    ___________________________________________

    So was it 9 years or ďaĒ day?

    Maybe Yabiku whacked you on the head so hard it made it feel like 9 years!:rofl:
  10. Royal Dragon is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2002
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    Posted On:
    1/22/2006 11:53pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    HOLY SMOKES, IT DON'T END!!

    http://martialtalk.com/forum/printth...3&page=3&pp=15

    RyuShiKan 05-24-2003 09:56 AM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Needless to say I donít trust you Ron and itís mainly because you have sang the following tune so many times in the past and still have not changed your ways. If you hadn't sang this sob story on several other occasions I might have even believed you but like a broken record you get old and I get tired of listening.
    UNtil you change you ways this kind of thing will always come back to haunt you.
    As I said on E-Budo............actions speak louder than words........you have a lot to atone for:


    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Ron Goninan
    To: Patrick McCarthy
    Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2003 12:14 PM

    To Mr. Patrick McCarthy,
    Please find enclosed my sincere letter of personal apology for the years of slander, underhanded behaviour and plagiarizing your copyrighted work.
    Having long suffered a lack of self-esteem, I have always wanted to be something I was not. An inflated ego fueled my ambition to seek out the kind of mail-order recognition that I could easily use to establish a guise of importance, made me feel important. Coming from a small community in country NSW, this worked particularly well and made me appear as if I were a big fish in a small bowl. Jumping from style to style over the years presented an opportunity for me to misrepresent my actual experience with each new instructor I met. So used to this did I become that I even began to believe it myself. Writing articles for martial arts magazines helped to generate a little more publicity, which not only solidified my opinion of myself it also gave me another way with which to accredited myself. My martial arts studies have been both diverse and dotted with false claims of outlandish rank from un-credible sources. I actually purchased a *Soke* rank from Rod Sarconoski's Juko-kai for $1500, and then several years later accepted an 8th dan Hanshi license from a complete charlatan in Okinawa named Takaya Yabiku, after only ever training with him once. It's probably of little interest to you, but this long and lonely road has finally caught up to me and I am now choosing to expose all, in an effort to escape the enormous chain anxiety that is negatively effecting every aspect of the life I truly want to live.
    I have knowingly carried out self-aggrandizing, unscrupulous and underhanded activities all in an effort to establish a reputation for myself, undermine your good name and protect my untenable background. I now regret this greatly. Such activities have included making pseudonym e-mail addresses in order to praise myself and criticize you, deliberately plagiarize your copyrighted material and present it as if it was my own, undermining your enviable reputation, and fabricating a history that did not accurately reflect my true martial arts background.
    I would like it to be known that I am renouncing all the derogatory comments that I have either said or written about you. It was just plain wrong and, as untrustworthy as I have been in the past, I am now appealing to your compassion to forgive me for my reprehensible actions.
    In truth, I am a great admirer or your accomplishments within the field of the martial arts and have, like so many others, been inspired by your work. I greatly admire your way of doing things, your research, the way you write, and the way in which you operate your organization. You've really had more of an influence on me then you may know. In a great many ways I have set you as a personal idol of mine. I idolized your work and the respect that was afforded to you and often wished to "be just like you." I guess that this is fairly evident. The problem was the way that I (incorrectly) set about to model my own life on yourself and your own research.
    It is my sincere hope and desire that you will accept my apology. Whatever hardships I am presently undergoing are purely the results of my own doing and my family have suffered enough shame and heartbreak as a result of my deplorable actions. I beg that you accept this and allow me the opportunity to work towards coming clean and "making it right again," without the threat of litigation looming over my head.
    Sincerely,
    Ron Goninan
    ------------------------------------------------------

    After reading this email you sent to Patrick McCarthy and seeing what you have done past and present on the Internet you are a "poster child" for all that is wrong with the MAs today.
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