Posted On:1/06/2006 10:49pm
I was recently discussing a secret Communist technique that's sometimes refered to as the "reverse kimura". This reminded me how in Beneville's latest book, The Guard, Joe Moeira does what he calls a "reverse kimura" too, but it's a different grip. Let's see if I can explain it:
You have guard, and you've got an underhook with your left arm. Sit up and reach over his right shoulder with your right hand (like in a normal kimura), grabbing his right wrist from behind (unlike a normal kimura). Now, with your underhooking arm (left hand), grab your right forearm.
That's about it. Most of the usual kimura mechanics apply: hips out, arm bent at 90 degrees, bring his hand behind him towards his head. What is obviously different is that you're pulling with your right hand instead of pushing. The pushing is now being done by your left hand against your right arm, and your left forearm against forearm.
I haven't made much use of this yet, so I can't vouche for the move, but Joe shows this repeatedly in his book, so I'm wondering if anyone else has as much faith in it as he does. I can see it having applications where underhooks are useful, like pulling arms in to counter double under passes and butterfly guard. My main concern is that it is too reliant on the strength of the fingers on the pulling hand, but maybe I just need to work out the mechanics to see how to use the forearms and palms better.
Posted On:1/07/2006 6:49am
How in the world you grab his wrist with your hand going from behind ? If i'm imagining it correctly, your oponent would have to have his arm behind or near his back.
Do you have any pictures of it ?
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Posted On:1/07/2006 6:55am
This reminds me of a freakin awesome move royler gracie did at a judo tourney in one of the gracies in action videos.
He was on his back and a judo guy was on top doing a kind of guillotine / neck crank. Royler reached up, over the guys shoulder with his right hand like Aesop described, grabbed the guys wrist and yanked it up his back. Totally fucked the guys shoulder.
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Posted On:1/07/2006 9:37am
First thing I thought myself was that you need strength to pull and keeping the grip. And I'm a weak little ****, so it's not something I would be trying on a regular basis. Like you said, maybe there's some "secret" to getting more leverage without having to grip like the hulk, but I don't see it.
Edit: When the arm is actually behind the back you don't need a lot of strength, but getting it there :/ well.. It's not very good for me :(
Last edited by fanatical; 1/07/2006 9:41am at .
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Posted On:1/07/2006 6:00pm
Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu
I will be attempting this tomorrow at open mat. Mission details to follow.
Last edited by Aesopian; 1/07/2006 9:59pm at .
Posted On:1/07/2006 9:56pm
I looked over the book again and saw I made a mistake in the description. The left hand (underhooking hand) grabs your triceps right by your elbow. So rather than having your forearms at a perpendicular to each other (as in a normal kimura), they are almost parallel. This is how the forearm makes more contact with their arm. The book also does just say "this method is difficult" and stresses that you really need to get your hips out to finish it.
Posted On:1/07/2006 11:15pm
Figured as much anyway. But still you'd have to get very close with your upper body while getting your hips even further out, and while it makes sense to use the left elbow/forearm for leverage against his elbow/forearm to get it up and behind the back.. I keep thinking it might slide off if you don't have a strong grip, even though I realize the left arm will be the one doing the entangling and that of course may be the trick. I'm still not an instant fan because I keep worrying about what happens if you have it locked but loose the grip (not very likely, I know but..). I think I'll try it out this week if I ever get the chance :D .
But it's making more sense the more I think about it. I'm trying to figure how I can break the other guys base and make him post or at least catch his attention while having the underhook, keeping close and still slipping my right arm over his right shoulder. I seems like there's not a lot of space for that. I may be over-analyzing here.
These things are nigh impossible to explain in words alone, but you usually do a good job.
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Posted On:1/07/2006 11:20pm
Style: Bad KB, Worse MT
From your description it sounds like this submission would involve the application of a bit more strength than your standard sub attempt. Would you say this is a fair assesment or not?
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Posted On:1/07/2006 11:23pm
Play with it, but don't worry too much if it never works out. I just enjoy figure fouring everything, so I was intrigued by a kimura off an underhook.
I'm actually playing with some ideas of using it from butterfly guard to setup sweeps, since you're fighting for underhooks anyway.
Posted On:1/07/2006 11:27pm
Yes, I'm worried that it relies too much on the strength of your grip to keep them from escaping. You need to get a really sharp angle on them (turning so you're out 90 degrees under them) to have your forearms, chest and hips all in alignment to effect it.
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