Fact: Martial arts schools can discriminate against people with HIV/AIDS.

**beka** · Posted On: 1/07/2006 6:13pm

I think the karate instructor and the courts did the right thing. I think the parents are assholes. Seeing as how the kid is 12 years old, the chances are good that they gave him the virus themselves (as opposed to a tainted blood transfusion), and I don't understand how a reasonable person could give birth to a child knowing it will probably be HIV+. The humane thing in that situation is to abort in the case of an accidental pregnancy, as any caring parents would simply adopt, instead of planning to procreate themselves.

So now everyone knows that this kid is HIV+, and I'm sure he's getting treated real well at school. The parents should not have lied on that form, and they should never have sued. The kid's life is already ruined, there's no need to let everyone in on his secret.

I think it was generous of the instructor to offer private lessons to the kid. Obviously the kid's goal was not to learn karate, but to be with his friends. If he wants to do it because "everyone else is doing it," then what will happen when everyone else moves on to the next trend? Is dragging the kid through the court process really worth all that?

I also commend the instructor for sticking to his rigorous training methods rather than watering it down for the purpose of inclusion.

But then there's the realization that I don't know the HIV status of everyone I've ever trained with and I may be putting myself at some risk, albeit a small one, but that is my choice. If I'm willing to have sex with a man I haven't taken to the doctor myself, then I think it would be unreasonable of me to flip out and insist that everyone I train with provide proof of HIV- status every three months.

To be honest, I don't give it much thought at all.

**Teh El Macho** · Posted On: 1/07/2006 8:13pm

Originally Posted by beka

But then there's the realization that I don't know the HIV status of everyone I've ever trained with and I may be putting myself at some risk, albeit a small one, but that is my choice. If I'm willing to have sex with a man I haven't taken to the doctor myself, then I think it would be unreasonable of me to flip out and insist that everyone I train with provide proof of HIV- status every three months.

To be honest, I don't give it much thought at all.

It's good that you don't give it much thought at all. And it's reasonable not to know the HIV status of everyone we come in contact with. I remember a doctor who once told me that we cannot be paranoid about it. We should be careful and smart, but above all, pragmatic. Not everybody has HIV, and it's a greater probabilty to get something else like HPV or hepatitis (or die in a car accident, for example).

I may get some flak, but I dare to say most people who has contracted HIV via sexual intercourse (or any other STD for that matter), either:

- were uneducated about STDs, and had risky sexual encounters continously over a period of time (long enough to increase the chances of contracting something),

OR (in the saddest of cases)

- got it from a trusted partner who continously had "something on the side" (I worked in an insurance company about 10 years ago, and heard of a few cases like that.)

One is always at risk of getting something by accident, but those are very rare incidents. Heck, it is theoretically possible to get it from a kiss (if you have a cut in the mouth or something). But the probabilities are so small that they do not warrant to think about all the time.

One thing for sure is that the parents were assholes.

**alex** · Posted On: 1/07/2006 8:50pm

you cant train in the advanced class at our club without a blood test. fail test, you dont train. i like my blood spatterings without aids, thanks.

**missile** · Posted On: 1/07/2006 9:15pm

Originally Posted by beka

Seeing as how the kid is 12 years old, the chances are good that they gave him the virus themselves (as opposed to a tainted blood transfusion), and I don't understand how a reasonable person could give birth to a child knowing it will probably be HIV+. The humane thing in that situation is to abort in the case of an accidental pregnancy, as any caring parents would simply adopt, instead of planning to procreate themselves.

Off topic: drug treatments are now available to prevent transmission of the virus to the fetus, and carrying the baby to term is a viable option. If the child's infection was in utero, the mother likely didn't know she was infected at the time.

On topic: yeah, it seems reasonable to deny admission to HIV+ individuals for rough contact sports. The chances of transmission aren't high, but they aren't zero either.

**Poop Loops** · Posted On: 1/07/2006 10:52pm

Originally Posted by Ikken Hisatsu

you cant train in the advanced class at our club without a blood test. fail test, you dont train. i like my blood spatterings without aids, thanks.

That's a very good system.

**Vik** · Posted On: 1/08/2006 12:41pm

I couldn't agree more. This kid knows he's going to die pretty soon and wants to live life to the fullest. It's a shame he couldn't join the program, although the chances of contracting the virus is near zero, would it fare well to parents if they found out their children were at risk of contracting the HIV virus? It isn't about toleration or discrimination - it's about safety.

Once you get the HIV virus, whether it was the smallest chance or not, you have it for life, however short it had now become.

I can't believe his parents would sue the program. They enroll their son in a rough sport that he loves, and when the program refuses him in matters of safety, they SUE the program, which their son loves so much. Doesn't this kid have enough to worry about? Now he has to live the rest of his life without peace and with a guilty conscience.

In a way, this reminds me of a time I was eleven. My parents and me were trying to enroll me in a football tournament club. We met the coach and ask him if I can join. The coach says, "Indian people have no stamina. He can't join." And there went my chance to join a football team. I was too young at the time to understand what happened and we simply walked away. And life went on okay. Now if my parents turned around and sued them for discrimination, I can't imagine the bullshit I have to go through right now. The coach was an idiot, enough said, and enough done.

**AlexSchira** · Posted On: 1/08/2006 3:15pm

With prenatal care, infected individuals can have healthy children without passing the condition. I didn't see a date when this happened, which is a big factor. If this was back before blood banks tested, and back when discrimination was mainsteam, then it's somewhat understandable. But if this is recent, it may turn out to be a Jerry Springer case. There's a possibility he had 'New Age' parents who avoided doctors because it drained their chi or something. In that case, the parents are morons who are in denial over what they did to their son, and the lawsuit isn't making it any better. But if this was back in the day, things like this were common.
Either way, HIV and sports don't mix. Sure, the risk is low, but a risk is still a risk when you're an elite athlete or a paranoid. Most of my life, I've been in boxing. Does my boxing gym care if an HIV-positive or worse person comes in and hits the bags, just works out, to keep in shape? Not at all, exercise really can help keep the condition from developing, good for him. Then again, if he wants to try sparring, let alone actual matches, that's a different story.