226100 Bullies, 4246 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 1 to 10 of 17
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. Judah Maccabee is offline
    Judah Maccabee's Avatar

    Bullshido Wikipedia Delegate

    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    5,325

    Posted On:
    1/06/2006 8:54pm

    supporting memberhall of fameBullshido Newbie
     Style: Krav / (Kick)Boxing / BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Fact: Martial arts schools can discriminate against people with HIV/AIDS.

    In researching for an article I'm writing on martial arts, I came across a case where an HIV+ 12 year old was legally discriminated against from participating in group karate lessons:

    A 12-yr old boy is HIV+, but his status is known to very few people.

    His friends (who don't know he has HIV), recently started studying a very rigorous style of karate at a local school. Wanting to be with his friends, he asks his parents to join this class, and they agree. While filling out the paperwork for the school, the parents lie on the form and state that their child has no diseases and is healthy to participate in the classes (when in fact, he has HIV).

    That same day, the owner of the karate school gets an anonymous call that says that the child has HIV. The owner calls the father of the child and asks him if the child indeed was HIV+. The father angrily denied that the child had AIDS or HIV. Eventually, the father admitted that the child was HIV+.

    The owner met with the parents and told them that he wouldn't allow the child to participate in group classes because of the risk of HIV transmission, due to the rigorous nature of the school, which included hard sparring that could open wounds and result in contact with other students. The instructor offered to teach the child privately, but the parents refused and sued the school, stating that the school had discriminated against their son based on a disability, in violation of the Americans With Disabilities Act.


    ---


    Every court that reviewed the case (local, federal appeal) unanimously ruled that the school was justified in discriminating against the boy.

    The rationale that the parents sued under was this portion of the Americans With Disabilities Act:

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/ht...2----000-.html

    (i) Denial of participation It shall be discriminatory to subject an individual or class of individuals on the basis of a disability or disabilities of such individual or class, directly, or through contractual, licensing, or other arrangements, to a denial of the opportunity of the individual or class to participate in or benefit from the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations of an entity.

    This is the standing ruling of the case:

    http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bi...ase&no=981169P


    Just something I thought ya'll would find interesting.


    Do you agree with the rationale of the courts??
  2. RoninPimp is offline
    RoninPimp's Avatar

    BJJ Black Belt

    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
    Posts
    1,141

    Posted On:
    1/06/2006 9:18pm

    supporting member
     Style: Rex Kwon Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    A private club should be able to do whatever it wants...
  3. Lothene is offline
    Lothene's Avatar

    Destroyer of Worlds

    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Ubon Ratchathani, Thailand (orig from Melb, Aust)
    Posts
    328

    Posted On:
    1/06/2006 9:28pm

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sounds fair enough to me when it's putting other kids at risk. In fact it's wrong of the boy's parents not to have declared it.
  4. Shuma-Gorath is offline
    Shuma-Gorath's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    6,608

    Posted On:
    1/06/2006 11:04pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ - Homeland Security

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If I expect someone to bandage their ringworm while training then it's not at all unreasonable to ask an HIV-positive person to abstain from contact sports.
  5. feedback is offline
    feedback's Avatar

    UAAAH!

    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    4,082

    Posted On:
    1/06/2006 11:23pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That's most certainly reasonable, and the boy's parents are irresponsible. Probably because they gave him AIDS.
    Tough is not how you act, tough is how you train.
  6. Poop Loops is offline
    Poop Loops's Avatar

    OOOOOOOOOOAAARRGGHH RLY?

    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Americastan
    Posts
    10,025

    Posted On:
    1/06/2006 11:27pm

    supporting member
     Style: In Transition

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by feedback
    That's most certainly reasonable, and the boy's parents are irresponsible. Probably because they gave him AIDS.
    Indeed.

    I just feel very sorry for the kid. He won't live long and in the time spent alive he won't be able to live to the fullest.
  7. X_plosion is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    468

    Posted On:
    1/06/2006 11:34pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I also feel sorry for the kid. However, it wouldn't be wise to place other kids at risk, especially since there isn't any cure for AIDS. I believe the school made the right decision.
  8. Poop Loops is offline
    Poop Loops's Avatar

    OOOOOOOOOOAAARRGGHH RLY?

    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Americastan
    Posts
    10,025

    Posted On:
    1/06/2006 11:38pm

    supporting member
     Style: In Transition

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Is HIV really that easy to transfer? I thought it exploded the minute it touched oxygen...

    Kinda makes me wonder... how many people that I've trained with have HIV and just haven't said anything?
  9. Teh El Macho is offline
    Teh El Macho's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Porcupine/Hollywood, FL & Parmistan via Elbonia
    Posts
    11,762

    Posted On:
    1/07/2006 2:31am

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I general most HIV+ people are quite responsible in the sense that they do not expose others, at least not conciously. So the incidence of a HIV+ person willingly putting others at risk is rare - the problem is people who do not know they have it, but that's another topic.

    Back to the main topic of this thread, I feel sorry for the kid, and to an extent, for the parents. I can understand why they didn't disclose he has HIV, a denial of sorts (not that I condone it). Regardless, it was wrong for the parents to
    • not disclose the HIV status of the kid in question
    • to put others at risk
    • to put the kid in an environment he just cannot be (a full contact dojo), and
    • to put the kid in an emotional rollercoaster with the lawsuit and all, as if he didn't have enough **** to worry about to begin with.

    The MA instructor wasn't discriminating him because of a handicap. Jeez, it's not like the poor kid is in a wellchair, or in crutches. You woudn't give CPR to somebody YOU KNOW has TB. Nobody could expect you to do it w/o proper equipment and training. So how in the name of everything holy these parents could expect the MA instructor to do the same?

    As a matter of fact, I commend the MA instructor, cuz he went above and beyond his professional and human duties by offering private instruction to the kid (at the very real risk of infection himself.)

    The parents acted out of emotion, but that still doesn't make it right. **** happens, and it's sad, but still, **** happens, and that doesn't give anybody the right to impose an arbitrary and potentially dangerous will on others.

    BTW, on a side note, the HIV virus does go kaput when outside of human body fluids. But that doesn't mean all of they go kaput when body fluid spills out. Only those at the surface die, and by dessication and evaporation, eventually all of them do. But if you have a cut or skin burn, and some infected body fluid falls on that cut/burn, there is still a risk of infection. It is not a guaranteed infection, and in fact, it's extremelly difficult.

    Also, another side note: people don't get infected by HIV (or Herpes or HPV or whatever) by a single sexual contact. Say you have unprotected sex with a HIV+ person. The probability you get infected is small. In most cases, it's the reincidence of risky encounters, the accumulation of probabilities that increases the chance of infection. Exceptions to that are infections by blood transfussion or organ donation - that **** unfortunately is almost guaranteed to pass the virus.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  10. Teh El Macho is offline
    Teh El Macho's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Porcupine/Hollywood, FL & Parmistan via Elbonia
    Posts
    11,762

    Posted On:
    1/07/2006 2:37am

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    BTW, the title of this thread is misleading. Martial Arts schools cannot discriminate against HIV+ people. Martial Arts schools can reasonably restrict access to those who may put others in danger. There is a fine distinction here.

    By definition, discrimination is unfair treatment of a person or group on the basis of prejudice. Discrimination is unfair restriction. Any form of discrimination is a restriction, but not all forms of restrictions are discriminations. You can't have a person with epilepsy as an airplane pilot. Is it discrimination? Of course not. It is a restriction based on safety concerns.

    Martial Arts schools must have a right (within reason) to restrict access to those tthat may put others or themselves in danger. That is not discrimination.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.