233601 Bullies, 3753 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 481 to 490 of 507
Page 49 of 51 FirstFirst ... 394546474849 5051 LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. whybother is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    253

    Posted On:
    3/29/2006 1:50pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JPinAZ
    Ok, I guess I will give this/you just one more try - Mainly because you approached your post in a non-personal, non-attacking way. Hopefully my point was taken in my last post. If it veers back to the attacking nature you repeatedly demonstrate, itís over. Fair enough?

    I donít feel I missed your point at all. I agree with you 100%. ĎTrainingí for boxing isnít the same as Ďfight experienceí Ė thatís boxing. If you read my reply post to Tom, youíll see I said I have done BOTH. I trained, and Iíve sparred. I hope youíre not saying though that you only need the sparring, because I feel that would be a very long process. Without the fundamentals drilling outside the ring, one will struggle a LOT more inside the ring trying to get things to work. Thatís trial and error. Itís the focused, constrained excersizes in the gym - outside the ring - that give you the initial understanding of the mechanics and theory, as well as the body karma to be able to express that knowledge. Itís in the ring where you test this understanding against a live, resisting opponent.
    No. Boxing (or sparring in the ring) is fighting, at least a form of fighting. Just like grappling is a form, or subsection, of fighting. To say that you have trained in boxing does not make you a boxer; you become a boxer or fighter (do you see why they call boxers fighters?) by boxing, that is sparring in the ring. Of course you need to do the preparation work, develop the movement skills first. But the movement skills do not make you a boxer or fighter. Boxing/fighting is what makes you a fighter, since you can only develop fighting skills by fighting. The mechanics or movement skills that you learn will be tweaked and modified when you begin to fight; the initial movement skills are just a base from which to progress. You can't understand this until you experience it. And that's why you don't understand the mechanics until you turn them into fighting skills.

    It is really simple if you grasp that your fighting skill or ability (or boxing ability or grappling ability) is directly proportional to the time you spend in *quality* saprring. No quality sparring, no fighting ability. Limited quality sparring, limited fighting ability.

    So movement skills do not equal fighting skills. In fact, some movment skills have proven themselves to be not very effective fighting skills. Aikido "masters" look great in aikido demos and in their randori because they all all playing the same movement game, but they are not fighting. When they fight, they find those movements aren't effective. Similarly, the karate reverse punch works in demos, has great power in demos, it is a movement skill that some people develop to a very high degree. Trouble is, it just doesn't make a good, functional fighting skill. Same with _ing __un. How do I know? Because of the fact we haven't seen anyone that can make _ing __un work against decent competition. I'm not trying to attack you personally -- I'm trying to get you to see the distinction between movement skill and fighting skills, and to look at the evidence: that _ing __un hasn't produced any good fighters.


    Back to the subject, I still donít believe you HAVE to step into a ring to know whether or not you understand the mechanics of a punch and whether or not itís a hard or powerful punch. IMO, itís in the ring is where you find out if you can apply it in a fight (and, I do feel one needs that experience too).
    So, regardless of my ring skills (which werenít too shabby) I feel I do understand the mechanics of a good boxing punch, and I feel I can demonstrate this knowledge Ė all based on my experience. Likewise with a WC punch. And, it is my experience, that even though I feel I have one hell-of-a good boxing punch, I found even better results with the correctly structured WC punch I have learned since then. And, Iíve done the comparisons.

    JP
    It comes down to the distinction between movement skills and fighting skills. Lots of things are powerful in demo -- like the karate reverse punch. I'll bet you can't break huge chunks of ice with your _ing __un punch. Karate guys can with their reverse punch. But they don't work in fighting good people because that movement skill doesn't translate into functional power or functional fighting skill, at least at a decent level. It's the same with those TMA guys who "root" and think they can't be taken down. In demo, they look great and may be able to pull it off. In fighting, in a real wrestling situation, they'll see that their "rooting" won't translate to functional fighting skill and they'll end up on their ass. People who do not have experience fighting fall for movement skills (and believe they are fighting skills) because they look great, sound good, etc. But if you can't see it work in fighting, and against good people, the overwhelming odds are it is bullshido and won't work.

    If you want to do some research, look up (the story was in BB) the story of the MMA fighter that went to the Shaolin monestery to train. He said the monks there could do extraordinary things with their bodies (movement skills) that he couldn't even begin to do. Yet when he sparred with them, it was like taking candy from a baby! Because they had very poor fighting skills since they never sparred. And much of their movement skills, the things they show in their demos, are actually useless when they try to transfer them into fighting situations. In other words, they are wasting much of their time training if their goal is to be good fighters. They are spending loads of time and energy developing movement skills that are useless as fighting skills, and not doing the training that will develop fighitng skills.
  2. Chuan is offline
    Chuan's Avatar

    Welterweight

    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Spartanburg ,SC
    Posts
    944

    Posted On:
    3/29/2006 1:55pm

    supporting member
     Style: Roberto Traven BJJ (Blue)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jnp

    I think the idea of trapping is a cool one. Unfortunately the trapping practitioners that I have encountered that do use it have not been able to translate trapping into an actually effective fighting technique. Your mileage may vary.
    Problem is that alot of _ing_un people try and over use trapping. Most punches are simply to fast to catch and trap. Trapping needs to be set up by either getting your opponent to do something stupid or by using it on the offensive.

    Another thing is that alot of Chunners seem to think that the only good trap is a fancy trap involving 3 or 4 moves that looks kewl when a simple dodge and punch works better. In other words a _ing_un practitioner should not go looking for traps but many do and when they cant get them it seems to frustrate them and this attitude could be where the "Too deadly "or "It doesnt work with gloves "arguments come in.
  3. It is Fake is offline
    It is Fake's Avatar

    Administrator

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    34,103

    Posted On:
    3/29/2006 2:02pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ahhh yes your stupidity continues. Please quote where we said no one would quit boxing to take up WC, I didn't say it, JNP, didn't say it, JC didn't say it either.

    This is funny because you keep posting and counting pages but, you act like you don't care.

    There is a button where you can increase the number of posts in a page. That way it won't be 48 anymore.
  4. jnp is offline
    jnp's Avatar

    Titanium laced beauty

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    8,242

    Posted On:
    3/29/2006 2:05pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ, wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dagon Akujin
    DA's expletive ridden post...
    Dagon Akujin
    You could try not clicking on the thread. I do it all the time. Oh and by the way, the tampons are on your right.
    Shut the hell up and train.
  5. whybother is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    253

    Posted On:
    3/29/2006 2:11pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I said no one would quit boxing or any functional fighting style to take up _ing __un, or other nonfunctional style, and that's because once you see what it takes to be a fighter, the sort of training you need to do, the demands of fighting itself, you won't be hoodwinked into believing forms, chi sao, qi gong, etc. will produce any real skills. That's why UFC, Pride, KOTC, etc. veterans aren't rushing out to train at _ing __un schools.
  6. It is Fake is offline
    It is Fake's Avatar

    Administrator

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    34,103

    Posted On:
    3/29/2006 2:14pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by whybother
    I said no one would quit boxing or any functional fighting style to take up _ing __un, or other nonfunctional style, and that's because once you see what it takes to be a fighter, the sort of training you need to do, the demands of fighting itself, you won't be hoodwinked into believing forms, chi sao, qi gong, etc. will produce any real skills. That's why UFC, Pride, KOTC, etc. veterans aren't rushing out to train at _ing __un schools.

    I know but Dagon likes to act above everything. I just wanted him to quote you.
  7. Dagon Akujin is offline
    Dagon Akujin's Avatar

    "I feel naked I was so distracted by your penis"

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    DETROIT WHAT! (and surrounding upper-class burbs)
    Posts
    1,842

    Posted On:
    3/29/2006 2:31pm


     Style: Ving Tsun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake??
    Ahhh yes your stupidity continues. Please quote where we said no one would quit boxing to take up WC, I didn't say it, JNP, didn't say it, JC didn't say it either.
    Here you go you retarded mother-fucker :bunny:
    Quote Originally Posted by whybother
    No one that really trains a functional fighting style, like boxing or BJJ or MT, is going to switch to a nonfunctional kung fu or aikido or other nonsense because once they see what is functional and how you need to train to make it function, the bullshit that these bullshido arts, like HFY _ing __un, sell will be obvious.
    And of course, the whole "your boxing wasn't REAL boxing", and yes there are like 20 more of these too:
    Quote Originally Posted by whybother
    To say that you have trained in boxing does not make you a boxer...
    Since you only posted that to be prove how much of a masturbation toy you are for AIDS infested orangutans, I'll cut out the 30 or so other times it comes up.

    So again, your entire logic is that nobody who did th3 r3a1 bjj/mma/boxing/mt would switch to something else, so this is a million times worse than me saying you simply never saw th3 r2a1 _ing _un. And as far as me trying to act "above everything", I'm sorry that you can't see how fucking retarded this post has been for the past 46 pages-or-so pages. So I'm not trying to act "above everything", I'm trying not to be a retarded fucktwit like those who simply cannot believe anyone could choose anything besides the "arts" that you approve of.

    Forty-Jesus-Fucking-Nine! :spam4:

    Dagon Akujin
    Last edited by Dagon Akujin; 3/29/2006 2:32pm at . Reason: wanted to add some bold
  8. Tenebrous is offline
    Tenebrous's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,399

    Posted On:
    3/29/2006 2:37pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuan
    Problem is that alot of _ing_un people try and over use trapping. Most punches are simply to fast to catch and trap. Trapping needs to be set up by either getting your opponent to do something stupid or by using it on the offensive.

    Another thing is that alot of Chunners seem to think that the only good trap is a fancy trap involving 3 or 4 moves that looks kewl when a simple dodge and punch works better. In other words a _ing_un practitioner should not go looking for traps but many do and when they cant get them it seems to frustrate them and this attitude could be where the "Too deadly "or "It doesnt work with gloves "arguments come in.
    That should be a sticky in the YMAS forum. Trapping looks awesome, and enough drilling can lead to awesome kung-fu movie-esque freeform trapping battles with other wing chun "disciples". Trying them against someone who doesn't want to play that game gets you decked. I focused on wing chun for a while for that reason and one of my training partners focused pretty heavily on it for nearly 5 years. It doesn't work out in sparring. The more I spar the more my handwork tends to resemble the boxing I've trained.

    Trapping isn't entirely useless, I've had some limited success with single trapping moves here and there. Pushing/pinning with my lead hand in order to set up a cross, pushing on both hands as a prelude to a takedown, even fook sao'd a hand someone left out in the air once (not many people will set you up like that) into a scoop that left them open for a hook with the same hand. Low percentage maneuvers if anything.

    People need to let go of the fantasy that anything they see in the movies is real.
  9. JPinAZ is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    213

    Posted On:
    3/29/2006 2:41pm


     Style: HFY WC

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake??
    I'm putting words in your mouth??????











    Seriously, are you drunk?
    I understand, I retracted that after I went back through all my posts. My bad, I did edit my post shortly after.
    Please, feel free to comment on the rest of my post though..
  10. JPinAZ is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    213

    Posted On:
    3/29/2006 2:42pm


     Style: HFY WC

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dagon Akujin
    48 Pages of Butt-Fuckery and Still Counting!!?!??!

    And now the logic of this conversation has become: "You never did REAL Boxing because nobody that ever did REAL Boxing would afterwards switch to something else that they liked more and found to work better for them." Yea for mother-fucking logic.

    So if someone ever switch from BJJ or MMA to anything else then they never did "REAL" BJJ or MMA? This is exponentially stupider than saying that maybe you've just never seen the REAL _ing _un.

    I could offer some more points here that actually make sense and have a point, but I'd rather just tell you all that we really need to shut the **** up and move along.

    Godfuckingdamnit.

    Dagon Akujin
    hahaha, very good point :)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.