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  1. QuickJab is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/02/2006 7:01pm


     Style: Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think Sakruba doesn't have "Great" endurance, he just doesn't waste alot of energy. He always looks calm and relaxed in the ring. Nervousness expends alot of energy, he doesn't seem to get nervous or too hyped up. An example of this in Boxing is James Toney. Toney is a natural middleweight and looks fat for a aheavyweight, yet you never seem him gassed in the ring. Why, because he's incredibly calm, his nerves aren't depleting his energy.
  2. The Limey is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/02/2006 7:02pm


     Style: Ex-TMA/KB Noob/Judo Noob

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Arahoushi
    Pro football players put themselves through intense workouts, decidedly moreso than say a professional golfer. A pro golfer would not make a good football player... but they make pretty good golfers. That's what martial arts are like... there are those that make good fighters, and those that make good hobbies and fun things to do with one's spare time.
    You're spot on there. BUT what do you do when that golfer starts telling you his the golf training program he sells will also turn you into an all star linebacker?

    There is nothing at all wrong with the no contact point fighting, kata heavy school UNTIL that school starts telling people they are learning to fight. And what bullshido is all about is helping people understand the difference between training as a hobby and training for a fight/self-defense situation.

    If all you feel comfortable doing is no contact sparring, good for you. That's your choice. I don't think any less of you. But don't even think for a second that gives you the right to **** all over people who get hit in training for being "mindless shaved gorillas". They train hard and deserve respect for doing what you're not willing/capable of doing. On the flip side, those "mindless shaved gorillas" shouldn't be shitting all over the non-contact types because fighting is a daunting thing for most people to face - unless those non-contact people start preaching that they're learning how to be good fighters.

    I also worry about the non-contact types being given a false sense of security because of teachers who mislead them into thinking they are capable of defending themselves against a determined attacker. Perhaps the natrual reaction of the TKD soccar mum is to run away...but thinking that she can fight a rapist off she makes kicking his ass her first priority instead of doing everything she can do to run away because she has an over inflated sense of belief in her fighting abilities. The rapist might go to jail but that woman's life has been irrevocably changed because she got raped. And the worst part is that her teacher keeps on deluding other people into thinking they can defend themselves.

    Sure that non-contact training will give you a better chance than no training in situations when fighting is your only option but in my experience it leads to people thinking they can take on more than they really can.

    I still cringe every time I see a girl with a Tae Bo tape because of all those women in the TV ads talking about how they feel empowered and can now defend themselves. Idiots like Billy Blanks spewing bullshit propeganda like that should be dragged kicking and screaming into the octagon to proove their **** works. Then they should be forced to make infomercials telling the world that their Tae Bo **** is crap in a fight but will still get you into shape.

    And yes, before someone mentions it, being trained in a "shaved gorilla school" will also inflate your beliefs that you can defend yourself. BUT that fact that you get hit/slammed on the ground every class by bigger/meaner/stronger/faster/more skilled opponents will *in general* give you a more realistic assessment of your skills and give you better tools to defend yourself with when you're too stupid to run away...or when running isn't an option.
  3. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    1/02/2006 7:06pm

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     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You could be sickly and frail for years, and then get strong later, and turn out to have a high genetic potential if the initial frailty wasn't due to your genes. Somebody with the 'right genes' to be a world class marathon runner might be bottom of the class if they have a respiratory disease in their childhood, and then eat lots of shitty food and get fat in their teens.

    That person might be later transformed into a great runner if at some point (before aging sets in too much) they get on the right diet and 'get the bug' for long distance running, you know ?

    The other examples of sickly people you gave may have gone from weak cardio and strength to 'okay' cardio and strength by training, but all along had extraordinary natural reflexes and coordination which only shine through once some training, good diet and the casting off of some infection builds up their other attributes enough to let it shine through.

    The frustration that built up through years of being 'the runt of the litter' may well have fuelled their determination to train hard.

    Nature vs. nurture is so complicated I think it's often too hard to seperate the two meaningully.
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  4. Gezere is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/02/2006 7:17pm

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     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    You could be sickly and frail for years, and then get strong later, and turn out to have a high genetic potential if the initial frailty wasn't due to your genes. Somebody with the 'right genes' to be a world class marathon runner might be bottom of the class if they have a respiratory disease in their childhood, and then eat lots of shitty food and get fat in their teens.

    That person might be later transformed into a great runner if at some point (before aging sets in too much) they get on the right diet and 'get the bug' for long distance running, you know ?

    The other examples of sickly people you gave may have gone from weak cardio and strength to 'okay' cardio and strength by training, but all along had extraordinary natural reflexes and coordination which only shine through once some training, good diet and the casting off of some infection builds up their other attributes enough to let it shine through.

    The frustration that built up through years of being 'the runt of the litter' may well have fuelled their determination to train hard.

    Nature vs. nurture is so complicated I think it's often too hard to seperate the two meaningully.
    The point is that they didn't go from frail to badass because of genes. Regardless of you genetic potential you aren't going to bring out its potential without training. And in the case of frail to badass you think the traing was light or hard?
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  5. Cullion is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/02/2006 7:20pm

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     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    No, you are right. The point I'm failing at making is that being world class might be genetic, but hard training is still beneficial. E.g. The fact that you may not have it to make it as a pro-boxer isn't a reason not to train in boxing.
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  6. BigNinjaPimp is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/02/2006 7:23pm


     Style:  fc karate, wrestling,

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah, look at Bruce Lee. In his youth he was slightly overweight and weak.
  7. Yamabushi is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/02/2006 7:52pm

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     Style: Bartitsu, Aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    I thought endurance was more about the ratio of your lung capacity to the amount of tissue that needs oxygenating, which is why long-distance atheletes are super skinny
    Not really, within reason the size of your lungs has very little to do with endurance. What matters is your ability (a) to make use of oxygen that gets to the tissues and (b) your ability to deliver oxygen to the tissues.

    Oxygen delivery is the more important of the two and it's dependent on cardiovascular function rather than lung function.
    Failing to become awesome since 1976
  8. Cullion is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/02/2006 8:01pm

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     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So is the physical side of improvement in 'cardio' about new blood vessel growth ? I've read that 'strength-endurance' routines and bodybuilding routines do this (with bodybuilders it appears to have visible results, although I was unsure whether this was just due to their very low bodyfat in competition).
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  9. Yamabushi is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/02/2006 8:28pm

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     Style: Bartitsu, Aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Not really, although there will be some new blood vessel growth to supply new muscle the main improvement with cardiovascular fitness is cardiac output.

    Cardiac output is determined by heart rate (HR) and stroke volume (SV - the amount of blood ejected by each contraction). Endurance athletes tend to have slow heart rates and high stroke volumes. Under exercise the average bloke can probably only push his CO to around 20 - 25 L/min. An elite athlete can push it to 35 L/min.

    They can achieve this because they have greater reserves in their HR and SV than us mere mortals. Under tough exercise with HR at 160 plus a normal guy's SV is around 130 mL/beat whereas an elite athlete is pushing out 190 mL/beat.

    It's cardiac strength and efficiency that wins the day.
    Failing to become awesome since 1976
  10. BSDaemon is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/02/2006 8:36pm

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     Style: BJJ/MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Yamabushi
    Oxygen delivery is the more important of the two and it's dependent on cardiovascular function rather than lung function.
    Hey dumbass.... Lungs are part of the cardiovascular system.
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