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  1. Animosimony is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/29/2005 5:17pm


     Style: mma

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Kimura throw/takedown?

    Does anyone have info. or link on the proper execution of this technique?
  2. UpaLumpa is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/29/2005 5:36pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have no idea what you're talking about.
    The single leg counter?
  3. Aesopian is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/29/2005 5:47pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Check out Karo's Judo for MMA instructionals. He's got an entire DVD on the kimura as a throw and submission.

    Here's a preview that probably shows everything you need to know for now.

    Royler shows it in his no-gi book as a counter to the bearhug from behind.

    You can also get it from the turtle.

    You can get the kimura from anywhere.
  4. RoninPimp is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/29/2005 5:53pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It's basically a no-gi sumi gaeshi.
  5. Animosimony is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/29/2005 5:54pm


     Style: mma

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks for the info.
  6. Shuma-Gorath is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/29/2005 5:55pm

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     Style: BJJ - Homeland Security

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've done the kimura sacrifice throw as the finisher against a punch thrown at you with your back to the wall. It's good for smacking their head into the wall as you turn around and throw them over.

    Unfortunately I don't remember the setup. I'll see if I can refresh it tomorrow in class.
  7. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/29/2005 6:54pm

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     Style: creonte on hiatus

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Aesopian
    Check out Karo's Judo for MMA instructionals. He's got an entire DVD on the kimura as a throw and submission.

    Here's a preview that probably shows everything you need to know for now.

    Royler shows it in his no-gi book as a counter to the bearhug from behind.

    You can also get it from the turtle.

    You can get the kimura from anywhere.
    Yeah, that's what George St. Pierre was referring to about his UFC 46 bout against Karo (http://www.knucklepit.com/mixed-mart..._st.pierre.htm).

    Quote Originally Posted by RoninPimp
    It's basically a no-gi sumi gaeshi.
    I dunno man, I may be missing something, but sumi gaeshi doesn't resemble an ude garami from the clinch... I think: :eusa_thin

    Sumi gaeshi: http://judoinfo.com/sumigaeshi.htm

    Ude garami: http://judoinfo.com/quiz0297_2.htm

    What Karo seems to be doing in his clip, however, is like setting up the kimura, and from there a sumi gaeshi-like thing (starting with his knee on the opponent' pelvis)... (again, my usual disclaimer)... I think.

    A few weeks ago, I was reading this JJJ book, and I saw an illustration showing something quite similar to Karo's throw, except that instead of being a front sacrifice throw, uke is thrown backwards, a la ouchi gari.

    The whole setup as described in that book seemed to me like one of those that cannot be pulled on a fully resisting opponent, but you never know. I'll try to find some illustrations of it later. :read:
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

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    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  8. UpaLumpa is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/29/2005 7:17pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by elnyka
    I dunno man, I may be missing something, but sumi gaeshi doesn't resemble an ude garami from the clinch... I think: :eusa_thin

    Sumi gaeshi: http://judoinfo.com/sumigaeshi.htm

    Ude garami: http://judoinfo.com/quiz0297_2.htm

    What Karo seems to be doing in his clip, however, is like setting up the kimura, and from there a sumi gaeshi-like thing (starting with his knee on the opponent' pelvis)... (again, my usual disclaimer)... I think.
    The movement and leg placement are the same. The final position is roughly the same. The only difference is the grip and taking it to submission rather than position at the end.
    They are indeed the same thing.

    As for it working, I think Karo's gotten it in fights and sumi gaeshi works at the olympic level.
    I've drilled this off of an unsuccesful single leg quite a bit but haven't tried it live. My main problem is I usually roll over funky and end up in an awkward position and so don't have a lot of confidence in it for m yself.
  9. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/29/2005 8:12pm

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     Style: creonte on hiatus

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by UpaLumpa
    The movement and leg placement are the same. The final position is roughly the same. The only difference is the grip and taking it to submission rather than position at the end.
    They are indeed the same thing.
    Yeah, I think I see what RoninPimp originally meant. I though he meant sumi gaeshi == ude garami from the clinch. I re-read it again, and I see that he actually meant Karo's throw is the ending part of sumi gaeshi after obtaining the armlock.
    Quote Originally Posted by UpaLumpa
    As for it working, I think Karo's gotten it in fights and sumi gaeshi works at the olympic level.
    At the OLYMPIC LEVEL? What does that mean? One can reasonably pull a front sacrifice throw like sumi gaeshi so long as you unbalance your opponent from the arms up. In particular, it seems you can pull it out as long as you don't get your torso too close to your opponent's:

    http://judoinfo.com/video/gokyo/SumiGaeshi.wmv
    http://judoinfo.com/images/video/san...sumigaesi2.mov
    Quote Originally Posted by UpaLumpa
    I've drilled this off of an unsuccesful single leg quite a bit but haven't tried it live. My main problem is I usually roll over funky and end up in an awkward position and so don't have a lot of confidence in it for m yself.
    With a single or double leg type of takedown, the thrower/tori puts one or both of his arms on the receiver/uke's torso, under his armit(s).

    The moment you do that, you put the core of you upper body strenght close to your opponent's center of gravity (don't know if I'm using the right words since English is not my first language.) On that setup, you can attempt your usual takedown, some sort of suplex, or something resembling a hip throw or inner/outer reap throw (ala judo).

    However, on that same setup, you cannot perform a front sacrifice throw like sumi gaeshi without risking your opponent landing on top of you at worst, or at best landing yourself in a funky position as you said. I just don't see how one can pull the mechanics for it...

    ...this is assuming that you were referring to the failed single leg takedown as you being the attacker.

    On the other hand, if you are the receiver of the failed takedown, I dunno. It seems that you and your opponent's torsoes would be way too close to pull a sumi gaeshi-like thing. Anyone else, a wrestler or judoka that may want to pitch in some knowledge??? :book1:

    Again, see the clips mentioned above. In both cases, unbalancing of your opponent begins at arms lenght. Or at least that's what my impression has been so far.

    I wonder if this should be in a different thread... :eusa_thin
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  10. UpaLumpa is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/29/2005 8:17pm

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     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    They try a single on you. It fails. You're both hoping around like retards. They're trying to work for a trip, you break their grip on your leg with a figure four grip of your own then proceed with the rest of it.

    And by olympic level I was addressing your comment about it working "live", judoka do sumigaeshi in the olympics. Good enough for me.
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