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  1. Aesopian is offline

    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    12/29/2005 5:17pm

    Business Class Supporting Member
     Aesopian.com 

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Standing RNC?



    Probably not what you had in mind.
  2. Shuma-Gorath is offline
    Shuma-Gorath's Avatar

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    12/29/2005 8:01pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ - Homeland Security

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Two weeks ago I saw the bouncers throwing a guy out of a club and they used the standing version (obviously), but placed the hand over the eyes instead of behind the head. It might have something to do with local laws against carotid chokes, but if it doesn't I'm going to run around the club district downtown handing out business cards.

    Anecdotes aside, I've been taught to push out the victim's knee from behind and get him to sit down while I stay up. I'll either stay standing or do the version with one knee on the ground and one knee on his back for mobility's sake.

    Quote Originally Posted by NSLightsOut
    Hence we have Eduardo Telles' and Josh Russell's versions of the "Turtle Guard" (Bet Eddie Bravo's "locoplata"ing himself for not thinking of that one first!)

    Telles in particular is a sign that some people are going down a path almost too silly to support with BJJ. I saw a match of his where he fought Ronaldo Jacare, where he actually managed to pull turtle from standing, as one does, and started working for sweeps and subs from there.

    One of my training partners spent some time training with Josh Russell in Brazil, and subsequently started letting people get back mount on him so he could attempt some crazy straight armlocks and a weird figure-4 of his own devising. It worked well up until people started to find that there was an easy way out of the figure 4.

    At which point, were it not for his stumpy little hobbit neck, he'd be in a great amount of trouble.
    This is actually related to a topic I've been meaning to discuss at length, but I'll save it for another thread.
    Last edited by Dreadnought; 12/29/2005 8:03pm at .
  3. Aesopian is offline

    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    12/29/2005 10:23pm

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     Aesopian.com 

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Dreadnought, I've split some posts from this discussion to their own thread on the topic. Have at it:

    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=30212
  4. Vulgar is offline

    Registered Member

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    Jul 2005
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    Amhest, MA
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    181

    Posted On:
    12/29/2005 10:53pm


     Style: SubG, Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Just move a little to the side and push them with your shoulder, maybe throw a leg in. They'll start moving their feet backwards and it's easy to take them down with your weight. This is assuming they haven't bent over like in that picture.
  5. Aesopian is offline

    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    12/29/2005 10:56pm

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     Aesopian.com 

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    And if you hadn't guessed, a standing RNC with no hooks on a trained opponent will just get you thrown.

    But you knew that already.
  6. albert is offline

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    Aug 2002
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    Posted On:
    12/29/2005 11:00pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    See Hughes vs. Trigg I in the UFC. Yes, falling during the sub might hurt, but it depends on the surface you're falling on, the height/weight of the person being choked, and maybe other factors I haven't considered.

    Thinking about setups, couldn't you just do a duck under (the folkstyle wrestling move) and transition immediately to an RNC, and then move backward to off-balance the other person (going to the ground if necessary)?
    Last edited by albert; 12/29/2005 11:04pm at .
  7. garbanzo is offline
    garbanzo's Avatar

    Middleweight

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    Nov 2003
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    Brooklyn
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    1,679

    Posted On:
    12/30/2005 9:49am

    supporting member
     Style: MMA, Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Aesopian
    And if you hadn't guessed, a standing RNC with no hooks on a trained opponent will just get you thrown.

    But you knew that already.
    Yeah, that's what I wanted to confirm.

    I know sweet **** all about BJJ. I have learned RNC elsewhere, but I've always done in on the ground.

    My reasons for inquiring are realated to self defense, or rather, wife defense, in teh street. My wife is a hot tempered little wench and last weekend she mangaged to get into an altercation on the subway with another couple. Seems the ladies couldn't agree on who got a seat first.

    The woman's husband was a short stalky bastard and I'm a bit of a tall stringy fucker. He exchanged words with my wife. He was actually trying to deescalate the situation before a cat fight ensued. BeforeI realized that he had his back to me while talking to my wife; the train was crowded and he didn't realize my wife and I were together.

    Being a striker, had the situation gotten ugly between the gentleman and my wife, my instinct would probably have been to kick the legs from behind.

    I later wondered about the RNC while standing, hence the question.

    I will now begin looking for anger management courses for my better half.
  8. Jekyll is offline
    Jekyll's Avatar

    .

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    On the wrong side of the pond for gong sau
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    Posted On:
    12/30/2005 10:51am

    supporting member
     Style: San shou(tai chi) +judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Aesopian
    And if you hadn't guessed, a standing RNC with no hooks on a trained opponent will just get you thrown.

    But you knew that already.
    What you can do, to reduce the risks of being thrown is to drive your hip into their back and pull them backwards.

    As I'm sure Aesopian is going to say that, it's still crappling and that someone good isn't going give up their base that easily, and can still turn out of it. But if you don't pull people backward you run the risk that even Joe Blogs is going reflexively grab your arm and lean forward.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stickx
    It must suck for legit practitioners of tai chi like Cullion to see their art get all watered down into exercise for seniors.
    Those who esteme qi have no strength. ~ Exposition of Insights into the Thirteen Postures Attrib: Wu Yuxiang founder of Wu style tai chi.
  9. FighterJones is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/30/2005 5:58pm


     Style: LARPing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!


    FEDOR FTW.
    I say do it how he does it, take away their base.
  10. Red Elvis is offline
    Red Elvis's Avatar

    Da Komrads... Again you are MadPelvisOwn3d!

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    Posted On:
    12/30/2005 6:38pm

    supporting member
     Style: Spetsnaz Shovel-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    RNC from standing with choke sunk:

    Pull back and down keeping them off balance while lowering your center of gravity to avoid a throw. This should not be gentle but rather forcefull and fast.

    You should have one leg further back than the other and keep walking them down. Two legs side by side and over you go.

    You can bring them down enough to get hooks in (I wouldn't) or just place your lead foot knee in the center of their back pulling them in while pushing forward with the knee on the spine. Not only are you now choking but your tweaking their back. (Silat)

    However as noted... against a person who is in the know or is aware of what you are doing... make sure you can breakfall.


    :sleepy1:
    .
    :icon_twis
    .

    To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence;
    Supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without spilling your Guinness.
    Sun "Fu Man JhooJits" Tzu, the Art of War & Guinness
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