What does this clip have to do with kicking?

**The Crack Taoist** · Posted On: 12/30/2005 8:46pm

Originally Posted by Omar

...which is related to Kidspatula's skepticism about being able to punch well if the feet aren't set up "right" in the way she's used to. You learn to punch from pretty much anywhere.

Punch, palm, smack, poke, fore-arm smash. What winds up happening is
that if you can get something pointed one way and move *everything* in
that direction (whether by launching into them or rotating into them)
you can get decent hits from it. Not neccessarily with the power of..
oh say a straight right from a good boxer.. but if it's coming at a weird
angle and if it's something that won't break easy..

You hit'em with your ballroom gloves...

**Torakaka** · Posted On: 12/30/2005 9:13pm

As I know **** all about kung fu, I'm bowing out of this discussion. I can't repeatedly get into the wall of "well in kickboxing maybe... but in bagua the world is flat" and continue a discussion. Have fun guys.

**Anna Kovacs** · Posted On: 12/30/2005 9:35pm

Originally Posted by deepbluehalo

Not neccessarily with the power of..
oh say a straight right from a good boxer.

As such, logically, it makes sense to stay in a good solid yet extremely mobile position from where you can always throw any strike you want, as in boxing.

Why do i need to learn mediocre strikes from inferior positions when I can simply stay in a good position and throw my best strikes all the time?

**Mor Sao** · Posted On: 12/30/2005 9:57pm

Good point Anna, but what if you want to throw the person on the ground on his/her head and end the confrontation? Moving to throw someone is moving from your stable stance to a position that if caught in by the other person is thought to be a position of compromise for the thrower. Hence learning to generate power along any and all areas of your body from any and all angles, at least in theory.

I train my bagua as I would walk normally. train to fight the same way, then my body will remember when its time to fight rather than retrain my brain to do something totally unnatural when I need to not think and act, wicked fast.

**Anna Kovacs** · Posted On: 12/30/2005 10:01pm

I'm really only talking about striking, once you move into grappling range then the game is differant.. Though, personally, i tend to intiate all my grappling from the plum clinch., making my grappling tie in nicely with my Boxing/Thai boxing for MMA use.

**Omar** · Posted On: 12/30/2005 10:37pm

Originally Posted by Kidspatula

As I know **** all about kung fu, I'm bowing out of this discussion. I can't repeatedly get into the wall of "well in kickboxing maybe... but in bagua the world is flat" and continue a discussion. Have fun guys.

h

Yeah...that's why I was trying real hard not to pull that card. I knew it would shut down the conversation. I was even hoping to avoid using the word "bagua" altogether in the hopes that I could just discuss the ideas on their own merits. Sorry someone had to do that to you. I think it's worth filtering out the "well in this style...." comments as best you can and see if there's anything there.

A better version of the same exchange you just had with Deep Blue Halo is Dale's response to Anna's restatement of your basic question. I also like Anna's further response as it keeps it out of some kind of dumb CMA/Muay Thai pissing contest.

Originally Posted by AnnaTrocity

I'm really only talking about striking, once you move into grappling range then the game is differant.. Though, personally, i tend to intiate all my grappling from the plum clinch., making my grappling tie in nicely with my Boxing/Thai boxing for MMA use.

Really...traditionally the stuff Dale and I are talking about is intended for that. It's much closer to MMA than to boxing. No groundwork, sure. But there is not supposed to be a clear distinction between grappling and striking. ALL traditional Chinese stuff is SUPPOSED to be done with standing grappling in mind. Not all are concentrated on throwing but it is assumed that the other guy may be and that grabbing and grapevining and standing chokes and small joint manipulation and all that stuff is part of the game.

So for example, boxing footwork may have a blind spot for "go-behinds". How would you shoot in for a suplex? In a boxing match, if you actually manage to take someone's back...is there anything legal you can do from there? Now if you are allowed to throw on a standing RNC or heck, even jump into rear mount, then the payoff is bigger and certain risks are more worth taking. That's something I've done in sparring before too, btw. In an essentially striking context, with a guy who was not a rank begginer but with maybe 4 or 5 years of training. He tried to close the gap with a kick and launch a fairly standard 1-2 combo at me as he closed which I slipped, using the bagua footwork and practically leapt onto his back slapping on a RNC and dropping the hooks in. We both tumbled to the ground with me on bottom but with the RNC and both hooks in place.

I think I really need to at least try and make another clip with some more freeform application of traditional CMA footwork in action. I can't promise it will be bagua but it will not be boxing footwork by any stretch of the imagination. My partner will be using pretty basic orthodox kickboxing stuff. I apologize in advance for not being able to video someone better and for not mixing kicks in because his kicks are still not really good enough for demonstrations. His punching is pretty solid though. That's 2 clips now I have to make.

1. footwork in sparring or a sparring type drill.

2. More "traditional" Muay Thai and/or boxing block and cover kind of defense. (partly just to show the degree to which I think I understand where the other side is coming from.)

**The Crack Taoist** · Posted On: 12/30/2005 10:39pm

Originally Posted by AnnaTrocity

As such, logically, it makes sense to stay in a good solid yet extremely mobile position from where you can always throw any strike you want, as in boxing.

Why do i need to learn mediocre strikes from inferior positions when I can simply stay in a good position and throw my best strikes all the time?

"Good position". Which way? Backwards?

You are talking about a "guard" designed to focus on one person and
pound them.

The circle walk is about making a guard that works on the assumption
that there are more than one of them. You have to "keep moving" your
guard to keep your back away from 2+ people as much as possible.
While you carve them to ribbons of course, with an eight foot broadsword.

The idea is you won't get good shots because you don't have time.

**Torakaka** · Posted On: 12/30/2005 10:58pm

Originally Posted by Omar

h

Now since you're involving the whole anything goes thing here I'm out of my area of practice. I'm a striker who's done a bit of grappling. My knowledge of MMA/NHB/t3hstr33ts is extremely limited, so I'd pretty much just have to take people's word for it in this context.

**Torakaka** · Posted On: 12/30/2005 10:59pm

Originally Posted by deepbluehalo

"Good position". Which way? Backwards?

You are talking about a "guard" designed to focus on one person and
pound them.

The circle walk is about making a guard that works on the assumption
that there are more than one of them. You have to "keep moving" your
guard to keep your back away from 2+ people as much as possible.
While you carve them to ribbons of course, with an eight foot broadsword.

The idea is you won't get good shots because you don't have time.

oh noes! Not the dreaded multiple opponents argument! :new_puppy