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  1. Torakaka is offline
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    Do you eat breakfast?

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    Posted On:
    12/29/2005 10:08pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Mantis
    You mean when he changes orientation? I didn't see him cross his line, he stayed on it.

    No, just when he's walking around. If he's walking around like that while engaged, that (according to what I've been taught) is bad and screws up your mobility. If your legs are crosses and someone engages you, you have to rearrange your legs in order to go anywhere. I'm sure bagua teaches you something different, but from what I've learned from boxing your legs should be more mobile than that.
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  2. Mr. Mantis is offline
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    One Ambulance, Eleven Cops...

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    Posted On:
    12/29/2005 10:23pm

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     Style: Kung Fu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kidspatula
    If your legs are crosses and someone engages you, you have to rearrange your legs in order to go anywhere. I'm sure bagua teaches you something different, but from what I've learned from boxing your legs should be more mobile than that.
    I doubt bagua teaches something different.
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  3. Torakaka is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/29/2005 10:47pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Mantis
    I doubt bagua teaches something different.

    "more mobile than that" meaning more or less evenly spaced at all times (incase you needed the clarification there).
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  4. Halogen is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/30/2005 1:28am

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    I'm probably off the mark here, but is the footwork about building spinning energy? Put very simply, the outward placement of the front foot 'winds' the coil to build the energy used in radial strikes like round kicks.
  5. Omar is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/30/2005 1:31am

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     Style: Chinese Kung Fu

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kidspatula
    I'd really have to see this footwork in action. Just looking at the video it looks really awkward to me and appears to limit your mobility. The whole crossing of the feet thing anyway.
    lol. Nothing I love better than an opponent who is wedded to the idea of classic boxer type shuffling footwork. It makes it oh so much easier to outflank them. Apparently shuffling is more mobile than walking?

    There is one more valid problem with "crossing your feet" but it ain't mobility and it does require a specific context. I'm kind of waiting to see if anyone here at "strikestan" will see it. The blinders here are pretty subtle.

    When you circle in, is that the point at which you'd normally be kicking?
    Any point at all. That's kind of the point. Shooter already gave away the big "secret" every step is a kick....and every kick is a step. I hate re-quoting him so much on this one lately but it's really kind of true and I haven't heard a simpler way to get the idea across yet.
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  6. Omar is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/30/2005 1:56am

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    I'm just noticing one of the classic bagua fallacies showing up here even from people who never studied it. The footwork always seems to suggest to the observer that you are somehow attempting to circle a stationary opponent who, in their mind, would just turn to face you.

    There seems to be a great deal of difficulty for most people to see what happens when both people are jockeying for position. That's a bit complicated to address and really needs another clip to make any sense anyways. Next week I'll try to come up with something. Like I've said before, there's no one terrifically good for me to make a clip with but if I structure the drill right I think you will be able to see a bit of how it works.

    Maybe something like me with arms at my sides defending against my partner who is trying to land punches wherever and however he can. That kind of handicap could force the issue enough to make it interesting.
    Fighting evil and upholding justice in blue silk pajamas baby!
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  7. supercrap is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/30/2005 3:39am


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    More videos please Omar if you have time... I'd like to see the progress of what you are talking about, from that walking exercise to sparring.

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  8. Omar is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/30/2005 4:59am

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     Style: Chinese Kung Fu

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    lol.

    I won't have a partner to work with untill next monday...at least not one that I can video. I kind of doubt my Sifu is going to be interested in indulging my whims for the sake of a discussion board. But I'll see what I can come up with. I've been working with a lot of somewhat new ideas lately. Not really new in theory, just the way I am trying to put them into practice.

    Later. Thanks for reading.
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  9. Mor Sao is offline
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    Nothing for Show, All for use

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    Posted On:
    12/30/2005 5:41am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Bagua footwork is like wine, there are many kinds and everyone likes a certain kind as it pertains to personal preference.

    First let me say that the vid clip was a nice change from the usual weird stuff that people post. Big Respect to Omar for his posts as well as his clips.

    Many people wonder why Bagua people walk in circles. It is most definitely NOT to learn to circle around someone. That is not going to work and if you tell me that I know you have not been exposed to higher levels of Bagua from someone who KNOWS how to use it in a combat situation.

    Walking involves twisting the body and lengthening/contracting as well as strengthening the waist, torso and most of the muscles of the back, and legs. Walking while twisting and untwisting helps one develop a serious ability to apply various techniqes while moving. Call it training to make your body "alive". Something you MMAers get in us CMAers faces about us not having."

    Back to the clip.

    Most people would call the stepping pattern shown the mud walking step, or the serpent step in some schools. You slide the foot with the heel facing the ground along until you have reached your natural gait and then place the foot down, then transfer the weight from the rear leg to the front leg and repeat.

    The most basic app from this walking patter would be a nasty low kick into the ankle/tib fib of the leg closest to you. Add this to a nice pair of steel toed Doc Martins, and you can break a leg really easy.


    Stepping patterns like this also teach you to keep moving. You only saw Omar shift his pattern when he hooked in his outer foot to facilitate his change in order to shift his mass from one direction to another.

    He "toed in" his outside leg and then shifted his weight and turned around without losing his momentum. This is what Bagua people are most well known for, they can turn very quickly and not lose their momentum which in turn powers any kind of attack or defense. Like Omar said its tough to see when you training solo.

    That outside leg could be applied in many different ways. You could use it to hook around the lead leg of someone who is coming at you in order to trip them, or slice their leg out from under them. You could raise the height of the hooking leg and kick the person in the thigh(that was mentioned earlier).

    But what many dont like to do is use Bagua from very close in fighting. You could use that hooking in leg to actually hook the rear leg of someone who has moved in on you. Though you would most definetly want to use the hands as well and hook the leg in one direction while pulling their torso the opposite way and causing them to come crashing down to meet mother earth, where you would keep walking with the mud/serpent step and kick them whereever you wanted after tripping/throwing them to the ground. The head and groin are the most agreeable targets for that kind of kicking.

    I never try to circle around people but I like to enter angles with my shifts(footwork changes) and take an angle that is most disastrous for them and advantageous for myself.

    Comments?







  10. Locu5 is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/30/2005 6:42am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Omar, I like the circle walking and crossing over. I would be interested in seeing you cross the circle to see how you were taught to step, structurally how far back are you seated while you walk, to what degree do you open/close the hips during stepping, etc.

    Apart from turning the corner with that step do you find that you are able to reliably walk the other direction before your patner can reorientate himself?
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