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  1. Virus is offline
    Virus's Avatar

    Senior Member

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    Aug 2005
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    Posted On:
    12/29/2005 2:48am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You are right. Kata is not bullshido.

    When someone says that kata is the ideal method to learn how to fight, that's bullshido.

    If a boxer said that the heavybag is all you need and that you don't need to actually spar, that's the bullshido, not the heavy bag.

    If he said endless hours of shadowboxing is the way to learn how to fight, that's the bullshido not the shadowboxing.

    I agree with you fully. Learn the technique on a complient partner, when you can do that transition to active resistance drills, dynamic drills and randori/free sparring. I don't think that's a very controversial position.
  2. Mr. Jones is offline
    Mr. Jones's Avatar

    resident sick ****

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    Posted On:
    12/29/2005 2:48am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Being a total psychopath

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Bud Shi Dist I said traditional japanese kata is two man kata. Kata is not only solitary. The solitary stuff is Okinawan. We call paired kata sotai renshu.
  3. BSDaemon is offline
    BSDaemon's Avatar

    Being Sublime Daily

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    Posted On:
    12/29/2005 2:55am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ/MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Jones
    Bud Shi Dist I said traditional japanese kata is two man kata.
    No, That's bunkai
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Jones
    Kata is not only solitary.
    Yes, it is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Jones
    The solitary stuff is Okinawan.
    So Okinawan is not traditional japanese?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Jones
    We call paired kata sotai renshu.
    So why isn't this post called "sotai renshu is not Bullshido"?
  4. ojgsxr6 is offline

    Dorkus Malorkus

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    Posted On:
    12/29/2005 3:16am

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing/BJJudo/Crossfit

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think in Iaido they do long complicated two man sets they call kata.
  5. Dagon Akujin is offline
    Dagon Akujin's Avatar

    "I feel naked I was so distracted by your penis"

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    DETROIT WHAT! (and surrounding upper-class burbs)
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    Posted On:
    12/29/2005 3:24am


     Style: Ving Tsun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'd say that the kata practice at my old Okinawan school was bull. In two years time I learned about 7 different kata. You'd pretty much learn them for a belt test while learning the right place to yell. Maybe an instructor would point out that your punch was too high or too off to the side. After the belt test, well, they were much less important. We spent very little time in class with kata, other than learning the choreography. It was not really ever expained. Really, only white-belts did the first one, as it was basically pointless.

    In my WC/VT class things are very different. There are only 6 kata in the entire system, and it'll take you probably 10 or more years to get all six, if you ever get the last couple (It'll probably take about 2 years to get the first 3). We do the first kata a lot each class. The Sifu does it a lot each class too. Proper positioning is one thing, but the correct "energy" and relaxation is also stressed, along with endless minor details such as weight, gravity, balance, tension, elbow placement, shoulder placement, posture, etc., etc. We are told it will never be perfect and that it isn't supposed to be. We don't have belt tests.

    My answer? Kata can be bullshido if it's just glossed over. In some instances, I think you can learn a great deal from some of them.

    Dagon
  6. ojgsxr6 is offline

    Dorkus Malorkus

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    Posted On:
    12/29/2005 3:31am

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing/BJJudo/Crossfit

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dagon Akujin
    I'd say that the kata practice at my old Okinawan school was bull. In two years time I learned about 7 different kata. You'd pretty much learn them for a belt test while learning the right place to yell. Maybe an instructor would point out that your punch was too high or too off to the side. After the belt test, well, they were much less important. We spent very little time in class with kata, other than learning the choreography. It was not really ever expained. Really, only white-belts did the first one, as it was basically pointless.

    In my WC/VT class things are very different. There are only 6 kata in the entire system, and it'll take you probably 10 or more years to get all six, if you ever get the last couple (It'll probably take about 2 years to get the first 3). We do the first kata a lot each class. The Sifu does it a lot each class too. Proper positioning is one thing, but the correct "energy" and relaxation is also stressed, along with endless minor details such as weight, gravity, balance, tension, elbow placement, shoulder placement, posture, etc., etc. We are told it will never be perfect and that it isn't supposed to be. We don't have belt tests.

    My answer? Kata can be bullshido if it's just glossed over. In some instances, I think you can learn a great deal from some of them.

    Dagon
    This is what's wrong with kata
  7. xingyifa is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    12/29/2005 3:40am


     Style: none currently

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Jones
    Bud Shi Dist I said traditional japanese kata is two man kata. Kata is not only solitary. The solitary stuff is Okinawan. We call paired kata sotai renshu.
    Just out of curiousity, how long have you been doing aikido?
  8. king of seals is offline

    HONEY BADGER!

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    Jan 2005
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    Italy
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    Posted On:
    12/29/2005 4:03am


     Style: Pankration

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bud Shi Dist
    Kata is solitary forms. Bunkai is applied kata with two or more participants. You don't know what kata is, your randori undoubtably leaves much to be desired, and don't even get me started on your ne waza.

    Just admit you're a bullshidoka, that is the first step towards recovery.
    Solitary forms are in most Japanese weapons syles and Karate, with related Bunkai.

    ALL forms of the styles involving grappling such as old school JJJ and Judo feature two partecipants for the simple reason that you can't learn decently a throw or joint lock if you are not manipulating another human being.

    No one grapples alone. :eusa_hand
  9. MEGALEF is offline

    Still digging on James Brown

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    Lund, Sweden
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    Posted On:
    12/29/2005 4:17am


     Style: BJJ & Judo (1k)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I wonder what a one man BJJ kata would look like..
  10. UrbanArmory is offline

    Registered Member

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    Los Angeles, baby!
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    Posted On:
    12/29/2005 4:17am


     Style: nothing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Actually, virtually all traditional Japanese weapon styles have two person kata, too- popular iaido doesn't. Only the karate weapon stuff seems to be primarily single-person.
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