Even mods take a day off

**Hedgehogey** · Posted On: 4/14/2010 1:48pm

First, I am not a Judo guy. Yes I have trained with them. Yes, I have fought in matches against them. Same with Sambo.

I am a BJJ guy, period. An old school, BJJ guy.

That said, the subject of hip throws in Judo interests me

**Mtripp** · Posted On: 4/14/2010 5:33pm

Originally Posted by Hedgehogey

First, I am not a Judo guy. Yes I have trained with them. Yes, I have fought in matches against them. Same with Sambo.

I am a BJJ guy, period. An old school, BJJ guy.

That said, the subject of hip throws in Judo interests me

mock me if you wish, but next time put a condom on your head. If you are going to act like a dick you should look like one.

With one post I put this forum back on track. You accomplished what?

**Hedgehogey** · Posted On: 4/17/2010 1:02pm

You mad, man?

mock me if you wish, but next time put a condom on your head. If you are going to act like a dick you should look like one.

With one post I put this forum back on track. You accomplished what?

Precisely this is the problem. Crusty old Judoka being extremely resistant to training BJJ but then trying to 'explore' aspects of it.

You're not going to make a huge amount of progress in that until you, to use a disgusting old cliche I should be shot for, empty your cup.

**Mtripp** · Posted On: 4/17/2010 1:24pm

<<<You mad, man? >>>

Nope, your opinion would have to have some truth in it for that to happen.

<<<Precisely this is the problem. Crusty old Judoka being extremely resistant to training BJJ but then trying to 'explore' aspects of it.>>>

I reject your premise. "Extremely resistant to training in BJJ?" Your evidence of this? In as much as my paperwork with the Carlson Gracie group is #2, doesn't that kind of say I have "trained" in it.

Moreover, I am not exploring anything, just trying to get the forum back on track after some unfortunate postings. I did do that, your odd opinions aside.

<<<You're not going to make a huge amount of progress in that until you, to use a disgusting old cliche I should be shot for, empty your cup.>>>

As to "progress," when you look at the record GJJ/BJJ people have against my family and my players, I would suggest it is they, not I, who need to progress. As to the "empty cup," why in the world would I? I have spent over 50 years mastering Judo, without which there would be no BJJ or Sambo. I would rather train in the set, rather than the subset. Thus I have done so.

Making plain what I do or do not do, keeps me apart from the bullshido artists of the world, and with all the silly claims out there, I like to keep that plain.

So again, what are you accomplishing here?

**Hedgehogey** · Posted On: 4/17/2010 5:12pm

I reject your premise. "Extremely resistant to training in BJJ?" Your evidence of this? In as much as my paperwork with the Carlson Gracie group is #2, doesn't that kind of say I have "trained" in it.

"I am a pure Judo guy" implies that you don't train BJJ.

As to "progress," when you look at the record GJJ/BJJ people have against my family and my players, I would suggest it is they, not I, who need to progress.

Really? They must be the next phenoms, sweeping the Mundials.

As to the "empty cup," why in the world would I? I have spent over 50 years mastering Judo, without which there would be no BJJ or Sambo. I would rather train in the set, rather than the subset. Thus I have done so.

This is your problem. Judo is not a superset of BJJ or Sambo. They're not nested inside each other like godamn Russian dolls. Judo, BJJ and Sambo are all extremely sophisticated in their own right. Or in other words:

"I have spent over 50 years mastering Wrestling, without which there would be no Judo. I would rather train in the set, rather than the subset. Thus I have done so."

Edit: Oh and your Colonialism aside, you've been on this forum how long and you don't know how quotes work?

**Mtripp** · Posted On: 4/17/2010 5:41pm

<<<I am a pure Judo guy" implies that you don't train BJJ.>>>

No sir, it speaks to what I do, not what I have done.

<<<Really? They must be the next phenoms, sweeping the Mundials.>>>

Phui, a non-issue. Mundials is as off point as it would be if I brought up a Judo or Sambo event. Head to head we have handed them their asses every time.

<<<This is your problem. >>>

No actually its yours.

<<<Judo is not a superset of BJJ or Sambo.>>>

Well, perhaps you will be the first person to name a single takedown or submission in BJJ that does not exist in Judo? I have only been waiting over 15 years....

<<<They're not nested inside each other like godamn Russian dolls. Judo, BJJ and Sambo are all extremely sophisticated in their own right.>>>

Strawman, you should know better. When played by the rules of there respective games, of course they are. I never said differently.

<<<Or in other words:

"I have spent over 50 years mastering Wrestling, without which there would be no Judo. I would rather train in the set, rather than the subset. Thus I have done so.">>>

Interesting, but it fails on numerous levels. First, I have always contended that it is all wrestling, its simply what are we wearing and what are the rules. However, once we put a jacket on, the game changes quite a bit. Judo became the model for jacket wrestling, of which Sambo and BJJ followed.

<<<Edit: Oh and your Colonialism aside, you've been on this forum how long and you don't know how quotes work?>>>

Oh, wow, how ever shall I live with such an insult. Actually, thats my point. I will do things the way I want to, and any and all others be damned...

...which would mean you.

Now, again, want to tell me what YOU are accomplishing in this thread? Other than your usual fatuous comments toward me.

I wonder where that iron fist that moderates this forum is?

**Matt Phillips** · Posted On: 4/17/2010 6:10pm

This is a non-issue. To the extent that we are talking about Jacket-free throws and TD's, and pinning, Judo is influenced by western wrestling. To the extent that we are talking about jacket throws, Judo is influenced by Shuai Jiao and Mongolian wrestling. SAMBO is influenced by these styles, as well as by Kodokan Judo. SAMBO is not Judo. Judo is not western wrestling.

To the extent that we are talking about Ne Waza, CACC is influenced by Kodokan Judo, as is BJJ (very strongly). And Kano's Judo itself is influenced (very strongly) in this aspect by Fusen-Ryu, and in particular by the Ne Waza of the Handa Dojo. Catch is not Judo. BJJ is not Judo. Judo is not Fusen-Ryu.

BJJ also has additional influences from western wrestling and SAMBO. BJJ is not either of these things. Neither is Luta Livre.

It's a completely tangled web. Anyone trying to claim priority of influence is kidding themselves.

All technical simiarity aside, all of these sports have significant differences in strategy and tactics.

I wonder where that iron fist that moderates this forum is?

Watching The Office?

**Kintanon** · Posted On: 4/17/2010 6:12pm

Hey Hedge, thanks for being all helpful here in the Technique forum as one of the resident purples belts and lending us some of your experti.... Oh wait. My bad. You're just being a douchebag to Mtripp for no reason. Nevermind.

Mark: I know most Judoka are against training from the knees, but do you think that there might be some value to training from the knees in Judo as it relates to figuring out how to put Sweeps together on the ground?

**danno** · Posted On: 4/17/2010 9:27pm

Originally Posted by Kintanon

Hey Hedge, thanks for being all helpful here in the Technique forum as one of the resident purples belts and lending us some of your experti.... Oh wait. My bad. You're just being a douchebag to Mtripp for no reason. Nevermind.

seconded.