ninjutsu demo

[Plasma]

Yeah the point of rolls in parkour, and I would guess the same for ninjutsu, is to take strain off your knees when you jump from somthing higher than8 or so feet. Cause after awhile your knees take alot punishment and rolling after falls prolongs that.

I would guess ninjutsu would do the same.

Exactly, we have a technique call "Tobi Ori" The concept is you are leaping high or off something high and you absorb the impact into a roll.

[Chance]

Time to draw a concealed weapon???? Our survey says "Ner, Ner" I'm asking about the technical body movement aspects of Ninjutsu and you're taking about walking round with concealed weapons! I thought you wanted ninjutsu to be credible to martial artists.

For high jumps I've got a technique called, I usually wear sorbothane insoles in my trainers:) Check out this website on the latest material that's going to revolutionise shock absorbing http://www.d3olab.com/ you heard it here first.

[Plasma]

Time to draw a concealed weapon???? Our survey says "Ner, Ner" I'm asking about the technical body movement aspects of Ninjutsu and you're taking about walking round with concealed weapons! I thought you wanted ninjutsu to be credible to martial artists.

For high jumps I've got a technique called, I usually wear sorbothane insoles in my trainers:) Check out this website on the latest material that's going to revolutionise shock absorbing http://www.d3olab.com/ you heard it here first.

Thought I answered that as well, conceal weapons it more an "added bonus." Rolling lets you go good amount distance a fraction quicker. With dealing with a sword or stick, a fraction a second is very important.

[Chance]

I have some experience of rolls and I'm not convinced that they allow you to cover distance quicker than other movements that are designed to accelerate the body in preparation for acrobatic movements, so I'll agree to differ (it's like trying to argue Zeno's paradox about achilles and the tortoise).

Perhaps you can give me the japanese name for the weird Ninjutsu roll I did all those years ago and I can search for info myself. Imagine standing in that Ninjutsu ready stance left side forward. Slide the right leg forwards to the left of the lead left leg, so that in effect the left leg is crossing the right, fall down so that you land on as much of the straight right leg as possible, trying not to trap your nuts in the process, keep the leg position and roll backwards. You can see why something so bizzare stuck in my mind, now what the hell was that all about?

[Plasma]

Its called Tachi Nagare.

It has uses in Ninjutsu, moving forward, throwing a cloud of powder and rolling away.

It has uses in Taijutsu, Grabbing the skin (Koshi Waza) and Doing a Sutemi (Sacrafice) Throw, throwing the uke over your head.

How I was taught Tachi Nagare, is walking forward, Tachi Nagare, then Hop Back. So the best way to think about it is a Enter, Evasion (the shooting the leg through bringing the body down) and Retreat in one movement.


There is a similiar roll called Yoko Nagare, with is the same but you swing the leg to the side and back roll to the other side. It for the same reason as Tachi Nagare.

[Gezere]

You cover more distance quicker. Also give a chance to draw a concealed weapon out of the view of your opponent.

You are NOT going to roll quicker than someone charging you with a sword can move. Also when you roll you are going to stop where is the guy still on his feet is going to have continous movement.

I use Nagare alot for sutemi or to go right into a submission from a stand or clinch position.

[Chance]

Thanks for identifying it for me KageKaze. I remember the walking forward into it bit now, I've had a bit of a practice and it's quite a fun roll, (I'm assuming you're allowed to untangle your legs as you go over) like I say if you can recommend a DVD that has all these variations I'd be interested, beyond that thanks for the help.

[Plasma]

Thanks for identifying it for me KageKaze. I remember the walking forward into it bit now, I've had a bit of a practice and it's quite a fun roll, (I'm assuming you're allowed to untangle your legs as you go over) like I say if you can recommend a DVD that has all these variations I'd be interested, beyond that thanks for the help.

You really shouldn't have your legs tangled at all. But I understand what your you mean. The "tangle" is undone in the roll.

As for videos I can't help you much.

I know my dojo has an Ukemi Video however, the guy who owns the master copies is going through a divorce and shut down operations for a bit.

If I remember Hatsumi's Togakure Ryu Ninpo Taijutsu video has a section on using Tachi Nagare and Yoko Nagare inconjution with Ninjutsu, using powder and the roll to conceal his escape.

[Plasma]

You are NOT going to roll quicker than someone charging you with a sword can move. Also when you roll you are going to stop where is the guy still on his feet is going to have continous movement.

Wasn't saying that. I was more referring to the Muto Taihen of Gyokko Ryu (I assume by your posts you are familiar with that). For everyone else, Someone charging with a sword and you roll at a 45 degree angle out and when they turn and cut you counter attack. I am saying rolling will get you into that position quicker then running.

I use Nagare alot for sutemi or to go right into a submission from a stand or clinch position.

Me too. Especially with big guys that like to stiff arm you.

[Spunky]

One of the solid contexts I've seen for actually using nagare to avoid a sword attack is in response to a lateral follow-up cut directed at your shomitsu (or if you are simply off-balance). Since you have no leg there to retreat with, the quickest evasion is to drop below the attack. You should also be on your feet ASAP, so a backward roll makes some sense here. But really, like in many cases it isn't the roll that gets you out of the way, it's just that your evasion puts you in a precarious alignment from which you roll to recover.

Also, the "quickness" of a roll versus moving upright comes from having downward component as well as horizontal; the lateral distance covered may not be any greater, but you also create vertical distance. So on this oblique angle you are possibly able to move "farther" in a given period, but still end up close enough to do technique.

But aside from desperate situations, accidents, and very difficult deliberate maneuvers, these are really drills to help develop adaptable movement, and to learn the shape of the space. If you have the time to roll passed a sword cut, and are perfectly balanced on yor feet, why wouldn't you use a little footwork to accomplish the same thing?