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  1. Gezere is offline
    Gezere's Avatar

    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    1/27/2006 8:13pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by snowcat
    Why wouldn't rolling from a sword attack be a good idea?

    You've got all the good stuff in 1 motion.

    You
    A) Present a smaller target
    B) Become a more difficult target to hit (moving target)
    C) Remove yourself from danger
    D) Position yourself to defend or counterattack

    And you can always roll even if you're completely off balance. You don't always get the option to jump out of the way of a swinging object if you're off balance or it's coming from a certain direction, etc.. You can hit the ground and move any direction you want to even if you were off balance before. You can also fall faster than someone can try to cut you with a sword or hit you with a large stick/ 2 by 4.
    You actually have to ask WHY rolling form a sword attack wouldn't be a good idea.

    b) wrong
    c) only temporarily (and I mean miliseconds here)
    d) no you wont.

    Look the sword roll is a drill and NOT a valid defense. I don't know how many time I whacked pple with a shinai thinking that it was a good idea. Its not.
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  2. snowcat is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/27/2006 8:34pm


     Style: Taijutsu, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I call bullshit. Some of you just like to argue for the sake of arguing. **** it, I'm not going to listen to it anymore. Shinden fudo ryu, togakure ryu all full of rolling away from or into a sword wielding opponent. Rolling away puts you out of range and gives you time to draw your own sword or pick stuff up off the ground or whatever.

    Rolls do stop but they stop out of the range of a normal length sword. Even if the guy runs after you he doesn't know where you're going to roll to, you can roll and then dive roll even further away to buy more time. If your roll doesn't get you out of a sword's range then your roll sucks. And I'd like to see someone make a good cut against a target that just moved to the side and dropped and is moving away all at the same time. You might be able to hit them with some part of the blade, if you're lucky. I'll be damned if it's going to be a useful cut. Just how far to you plan on extending yourself to get a cut on a 2.5 foot high target that's already 4 feet from you. :5censored :5censored

    You can see all 3 of the kans doing drills like this, including their respective leaders. I'll let their actions speak for themselves. You show me your kaiden menkyo in any sword system and I'll start paying attention to your sword advice. Ukemi against a sword attack is part of at least 2 ryu in ninpo ryu. Dispute that if you want, I don't give a damn.
    Last edited by snowcat; 1/27/2006 8:38pm at .
  3. Gezere is offline
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    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    1/27/2006 8:48pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Call BS all you like it still doesn't change the fact that its a BAD idea.

    Stop the BS and actually have someone your level or higher attack you with a shinai and count how many times you get whacked before you can recover and counter. Why?

    ITS A FUCKING DRILL YOU DUMBASS!!!
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  4. BigNinjaPimp is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    1/27/2006 8:50pm


     Style:  fc karate, wrestling,

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Chance
    Rolling away from a sword attack???? I can imagine someone using high level Parkour skills to remove themselves from the situation but basic Ninjutsu doesn't look like it would cut it anymore. It's funny how the Parkour scene has embarassed all the wannabe Ninjas, by being able to really jump across rooftops and scale buildings.

    I attended a Ninjutsu (Bujinkan) class many years ago where we did a few interesting roll variations. I was wondering if any of you taijutsu practicioners could recommend a DVD that has all of the roll and breakfall variations within Ninjutsu. The basic shoulder rolls wouldn't interest me but from what I did in that class years ago I suspect there's a few variations I don't know about. This isn't a wind up because I can honestly say that rolls and breakfalls have saved me from injury many times.

    Thanks.
    Hell yeah pk for life.

    I do parkour, been doing it for 7months. Its the best
  5. Virus is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    1/27/2006 9:14pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Asia's right snowcat. When it comes to a question like this debate is more or less pointless as it can be tested safely under live conditions. Have a go during your next class and let us know how it went. The sword roll drill that comes from gyokko ryu was explained to me as a distancing exercise.
  6. BigNinjaPimp is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/27/2006 9:21pm


     Style:  fc karate, wrestling,

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    chance chek out team ukemi's ukemi tutorial
    http://www.teamukemi.com/tu_tricktutorials.html

    they also practice parkour thats how I found them, They're pretty badass in my opinion.
    On one of their vids a guy does one haded kartwheels while blowing fire.
  7. In Flames is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/28/2006 4:15am


     Style: Judo, Iaido and jodo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What's the point of the roll? If you have enough room to get out of range in a roll, you've enough room to just move.
  8. Chance is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/28/2006 6:22am


     Style: None at the moment,

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks for the link but I had already seen that site, and I am familiar with the Parkour movements. I'm actually looking for a DVD that covers Traditional Ninjutsu training rolls and breakfalls. In the class I went to years ago I remember we did a very unusual backwards roll that started standing with the legs crossed strangely, this convinces me that there are some interesting variations in Traditional Ninjutsu I would like to see.

    Snowcat I once used my limited ability in rolls, headsprings and handsprings during a quick game of tag at an acrobatics class. We all had acrobatic ability and I only did it for a laugh because we were all safety minded. Even though dropping and rolling away worked for a bit, I quickly tired myself out and everyone could sprint into range as I recovered. The only thing that kept people back was avoiding getting kicked in the face as I flipped away. That wouldn't stop someone chopping at my legs with a sword though. Unless you use Taijutsu/Parkour to totally break the f*ck out of the area I can't see the rolls being a good idea in isolation versus a weapon. I appreciate their place in training though because number of times I've had to fight for real =0, number of times rolls and breakfalls have saved me from injury=lost count.
  9. BigNinjaPimp is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/28/2006 10:48am


     Style:  fc karate, wrestling,

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah the point of rolls in parkour, and I would guess the same for ninjutsu, is to take strain off your knees when you jump from somthing higher than8 or so feet. Cause after awhile your knees take alot punishment and rolling after falls prolongs that.

    I would guess ninjutsu would do the same.
  10. Plasma is offline
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    Heel Hook Hunter

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    Posted On:
    1/28/2006 10:59am

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: Jiu Jitsu | Knife

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by In Flames
    What's the point of the roll? If you have enough room to get out of range in a roll, you've enough room to just move.
    You cover more distance quicker. Also give a chance to draw a concealed weapon out of the view of your opponent.
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