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  1. Aesopian is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/04/2006 2:56pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The x-guard is the cat's meow. One day I'll write that post about how it ties into my butterfly and half guard. And how De la Riva ties into half and x-guard.

    And don't get too hung up on the names. They are handy for communicating to others but if you just think of them as a range of connected positions, hooks and leverages, the distinctions between them gets blurry and is lost.
  2. Phrost is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/04/2006 2:58pm

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     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Aeso... read my training log. Is there a name for the sub I bumbled into?
  3. PEtrainer is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/04/2006 3:01pm


     Style: wrestling, Bjj, fi ting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Aesopian
    The x-guard is the cat's meow. One day I'll write that post about how it ties into my butterfly and half guard.
    Does Eddie Bravo approve of the X-Guard?
  4. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/04/2006 3:04pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Aesopian
    The x-guard is the cat's meow. One day I'll write that post about how it ties into my butterfly and half guard. And how De la Riva ties into half and x-guard.

    And don't get too hung up on the names. They are handy for communicating to others but if you just think of them as a range of connected positions, hooks and leverages, the distinctions between them gets blurry and is lost.
    I'm looking forward to see that post. I especially like that one you wrote about the basketball drills. I try not to get hung up on names cuz I'm bad with names to begin with. :eusa_wall I work and learn much better when I think of connecting the dots. :cachas:
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

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    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  5. Aesopian is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/04/2006 3:06pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Eddie shows two basics x-guard sweeps in his book as part of his half guard, but he just uses them to close the distance on a standing opponent while buttscooting, and I think he says he only really uses them to get to half guard. He doesn't seem to have a very developed x-guard game, but he approves.
  6. Cassius is online now
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    Posted On:
    1/04/2006 3:08pm

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Aesopian
    The x-guard is the cat's meow. One day I'll write that post about how it ties into my butterfly and half guard. And how De la Riva ties into half and x-guard.

    And don't get too hung up on the names. They are handy for communicating to others but if you just think of them as a range of connected positions, hooks and leverages, the distinctions between them gets blurry and is lost.
    I'm not familiar with the De la Riva/half guard/x-guard series, but I have a half-guard/butterfly/x-guard series that is bread and butter for me, except that I tend to heavily favor butterfly over x-guard. That series is one of two or three ways that I am generally successful at transitioning to x-guard, though.

    I concur wholeheartedly with the series of positions, hooks, and leverages bit.
  7. Gumby is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/04/2006 3:56pm


     Style: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost
    I think the only real difference here is that a lot of BJJ guys view the guard as an offensive position (which it can be), regardless of whether or not it's an optimal one. MMA rules change how the guard is used because you're getting punched in the face, hence a lot more closed guard work with the legs to hold off the GnP.

    So like I said, this is more about BJJ vs MMA.

    The guard can be used as an offensive position, if you've got no other choice- for example, if you fail in taking your opponent down, its not a bad idea to sit through and pull him down, depending on certain circumstances:

    -how good you are on your feet
    -how good you are on the ground
    -how good your opponent is on his feet
    -how good your opponent is on the ground

    In those instances, it may be a wiser decision to put someone in the guard and fight from there (i.e. Nog vs Cro Cop) and a skilled practitioner can use the guard to his advantage. The problem that led people to believe "the guard is dead in MMA" is inexperienced people using it- they dont know groundwork, but they do know that if you're on your back, guard is the best place to be, so they use it and knowingly suck at doing so and when it fails for them other people wonder why.


    Anyways, the big problem that people coming from a straight BJJ background have with the guard has to do with the ruleset. In your typical BJJ fight, it is practically impossible for the top man to attack the man on the bottom until he opens his guard. If one person can do nothing but defend, and the other has the option to go for sweeps, reversals, and submissions, thats a good position to be in.

    When added to a MMA context, I believe the guard to be a neutral position between evenly skilled fighters- obviously the bottom becomes less and less desirable as the person on top becomes more and more skilled. With the addition of punches, elbows, and headbutts, the man in the guard now has attacks he can use, while the bottom man still has his attacks. The problem occurs with those who hold closed guard for dear life because that strategy wins in BJJ, but leaves way for an assbeating in MMA. If people know when and why to open their guard in MMA, it would be a much better position.
  8. Aesopian is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/04/2006 4:05pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Not that it's particularly related, but I found it hilarious how in the first MMA show in Tampa, at least two wrestlers won with kimuras from guard while a BJJ guy TKOD'd a kickboxer with GnP in the guard.
  9. Hedgehogey is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/04/2006 6:12pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost
    I think the only real difference here is that a lot of BJJ guys view the guard as an offensive position (which it can be), regardless of whether or not it's an optimal one. MMA rules change how the guard is used because you're getting punched in the face, hence a lot more closed guard work with the legs to hold off the GnP.

    So like I said, this is more about BJJ vs MMA.
    The problem here is that, with guard essentially being a neutral position, people have forgotten to use the same strategy used in that other neutral grappling position*: control of the upper body. I've seen too many MMA fights where the top guy is allowed to sit up and get posture, and the bottom guy appears to have learned his guardwork from a shotokan instructor who suddenly "discovered" guardwork in Bassai Dai. If you're not actively seeking underhooks, rubber guard, or some other form of upper body control, or at the very least not allowing him to raise his head up, you're probably doing bad guardwork.

    Look, guardwork is not straightforward or easy. It is a complicated, technical skill. It needs to be specifically drilled and taught by someone who's actually used it.










    *protip: it's clinch


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