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  1. Scrapper is offline
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    Fear and bullets.

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    Posted On:
    12/30/2005 8:26pm

    staff
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    http://fcfighter.brinkster.net/


    Andy Valencourt
    Name:
    Andy Valencourt
    Am Record:
    0-1-0
    Send Additional Profile Information
    * Record is calculated based upon the fights in our database. The format is Win/Lose/Draw. Fights resulting in No Contest (NC) are not included in this total.




    Amateur Fight Record
    Result Opponent Method
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    Round
    Event
    Date
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    Pictures
    Lose Jason Teeman TKO (Cut) 0:00
    1
    Adrenaline Extreme Combat 7
    8/27/2005


    my time is wrong too (as is my name), but at least they designated the cut.
    Last edited by Scrapper; 12/30/2005 9:45pm at .
    And lo, Kano looked down upon the field and saw the multitudes. Amongst them were the disciples of Uesheba who were greatly vexed at his sayings. And Kano spake: "Do not be concerned with the mote in thy neighbor's eye, when verily thou hast a massive stick in thine ass".

    --Scrolls of Bujutsu: Chapter 5 vs 10-14.
  2. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/30/2005 9:39pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    If they win, yes.
    Then that would mean Marvin Eastman is not a legitimate fighter.
    http://www.sherdog.com/fightfinder/f...?fighterID=339
    He has a record of 11-5-0, yet he has never won in the UFC... afaik...

    ** edited **
    granted, the original topic was about grappling and grapplers, but if legitimacy is a function of winning in the UFC, I wouldn't see a reason why that same criteria cannot be applied to fighters in general... ergo, Eastman would not be a legitimate fighter.

    ** one more editing ***
    and in the UFC, he lost to Vito Belfort and Travis Lutter, hardly pushovers. So a record of a fighter's wins at a major event may not necessarily be a good measure of the fighter... in my opinion.
    Last edited by Teh El Macho; 12/30/2005 10:09pm at .
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  3. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/30/2005 10:26pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by UpaLumpa
    I've learned through the experience of others to not disclose personal information to body builders.
    Well, I'm not a bodybuilder, so the comment seems out of place. Second time you have made an insinuation about me, but whatever... :XXjester:
    Quote Originally Posted by UpaLumpa
    This tactic has served me well in the past and I trust it to serve me in the future.
    I guess in the past you have encountered yourself (or put yourself) in a situation of danger. I'm glad that you are currently fine.
    Quote Originally Posted by UpaLumpa
    I grapple, the VT and striking I do at my school I do because I have to (in warmups). I'm not planning on adding anything because I don't give a crap.
    You are the first serious martial artist I've heard in this site that doesn't give a crap about cross training, so I guess you grappling skills are more than sufficient. I'm glad to hear that.

    btw...

    -- what VT stands for?
    -- what sort of warm ups do you do that involve striking? Do you strike at each other during rolling, bare handed or with gloves? Hitting focus mits or sandbags? Are your fists conditioned enough that don't need anything else?

    As for you not wanting to divulge your training school, it's all kosher, all cool. Makes no difference. I guess we'll never know where you obtained your hard-earned blue belt in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  4. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/31/2005 4:42am

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Osiris
    VT is ving tsun.

    Or Vale Tudo. I'll let you decide.
    Hmmm, I'll take the guess he meant Value Tudo. Cool.

    It's 4:30am, and I think I overdid the pre-end-of-the-year club thing. :chewy: Crap, I'm going to sleep.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  5. UpaLumpa is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/02/2006 3:58pm

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     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by elnyka
    You are the first serious martial artist I've heard in this site that doesn't give a crap about cross training, so I guess you grappling skills are more than sufficient. I'm glad to hear that.
    To further the derailment of this thread:
    I wouldn't call myself a martial artist; ever.
    I do bjj because it is fun. I'm on the mats around 10 hours a week because it is fun and a better workout for me than lifting or running, both of which I've done a lot of in the past. I train for sport bjj competitions and submission wrestling. I do not train for self defense and I don't train for mma.
  6. Gumby is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/03/2006 4:53pm


     Style: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrapper
    Critical differences between Brazilian Jujitsu and American Jujitsu.
    Assuming I interpreted your post correctly, I dont see a whole lot of critical differences. The world of submission grappling has grown tremendously within the past decade due to events such as Abu Dhabi. 10 years ago you could distinguish between grappling styles to a much greater degree than now.

    For example, BJJ fighters were traditionally not good at takedowns and focuses on upper body submissions. Wrestlers had good takedowns, but no submission skills, and Judoka could only fight with a gi on.

    Now we're seeing BJJ fighterswith footlocks and takedowns, Judoka are throwing people left and right in no gi, and wrestlers are pulling off submissions from top and bottom positions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrapper
    Specifically, as a grappling style, AJJ is not terribly fond of guard work.
    When you mention being fond of guard work, thats in reference to an individuals style as opposed to an entire style's preference. For example, it would be accurate to say that BJJ is a style that prefers ground fighting, but not as accurate to say that BJJ prefers to work out of the guard. I've seen many fighters who are the best in the world that will never resort to going to their back either in a fight or in a BJJ match- if they do, they often escape to the feet much like Chuck Liddell would and start back at square one

    [QUOTE=Scrapper] I will now pause for the BJJ’ers of the world to try to imagine what that looks like. [\QUOTE]

    I'll admit- I laughed


    Quote Originally Posted by Scrapper
    That is the first major difference between BJJ and AJJ as grappling styles. This is not to say that the guard is considered an inferior position, or something distasteful. AJJ is very focused on competitive MMA and “street” effectiveness. Reliance on the guard, or the “chess match” grappling style espoused by much (not all) of the BJJ world is not in accordance with the AJJ mindset.
    At any given time in any grappling tournament, someone has to be on the bottom, and someone has to be on top. For example, Jacare, Margarida, and Daniel Moraes are BJJ fighters who make their game happen on top.


    Quote Originally Posted by Scrapper
    In AJJ, the goal is the rapid, effective, and brutal overwhelming of the opponent’s defenses and a speedy victory. AJJ still works from the guard quite a bit, as any GOOD grappling style does. Empirical evidence has proven that facility with the guard position is essential, so please do not misunderstand this point. It is simply approached with the assumption that one will work out of, or through the guard (offensively or defensively) quickly and decisively.
    Thats also referring to an individuals style. Initially, BJJ was created to help the smaller man defeat the larger man. The reality of fighting is that this is very difficult when you're outweighed, hence the boring long time limit matches the Gracies used to have when MMA was in its infancy. At that time, there really werent any large or overly powerfull BJJ practitioners.

    Examples would be Diego Sanchez and Vitor Belfort as fighters who try to end quickly and brutally. In reference to what I italicized, Rodrigo Nogueira is a good example of someone who is proactive while in the guard position. Royce Gracie would be an example of someone who is more reactive and in line with what was traditional BJJ.



    Quote Originally Posted by Scrapper
    The main difference between the two (and it is the most obvious and critical difference) is this: striking. In AJJ, you will hit and be hit. Even if one was to consider one’s self a “pure grappler,” in the AJJ curriculum, one would still have to develop familiarity (at the minimum) with basic boxing, muay thai, and san shou techniques and strategies.
    Wouldnt that make AJJ more in line with a MMA school?



    All in all, as I said, I think submission wrestling has grown to incorporate so much of what works vs what doesnt that its so difficult to draw lines anymore, because quite frankly everyone's using the same thing. I can understand your references to guard work and the such, but any BJJ school I've been at (including Humaita) I see everyone fighting for the top position when they're training in BJJ

    In case you were wondering, I am one of those guard pulling whores :eusa_shhh
  7. UpaLumpa is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/03/2006 6:19pm

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     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    One of the greatest misconceptions is that the guard is somehow the pinnacle position according to bjj.
    This is usually due to watching clips as opposed to, you know, training.
  8. Scrapper is offline
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    Fear and bullets.

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    Posted On:
    1/03/2006 6:33pm

    staff
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Gumby
    Assuming I interpreted your post correctly, I dont see a whole lot of critical differences. The world of submission grappling has grown tremendously within the past decade due to events such as Abu Dhabi. 10 years ago you could distinguish between grappling styles to a much greater degree than now.

    For example, BJJ fighters were traditionally not good at takedowns and focuses on upper body submissions. Wrestlers had good takedowns, but no submission skills, and Judoka could only fight with a gi on.

    Now we're seeing BJJ fighters with footlocks and takedowns, Judoka are throwing people left and right in no gi, and wrestlers are pulling off submissions from top and bottom positions.

    Agreed. There is nothing here that is not 100% true.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gumby
    When you mention being fond of guard work, thats in reference to an individuals style as opposed to an entire style's preference. For example, it would be accurate to say that BJJ is a style that prefers ground fighting, but not as accurate to say that BJJ prefers to work out of the guard. I've seen many fighters who are the best in the world that will never resort to going to their back either in a fight or in a BJJ match- if they do, they often escape to the feet much like Chuck Liddell would and start back at square one
    A fair enough point. It is the risk one runs when one communicates in generalizations that these little semantic incongruities pop up. Would it be fair to say that many of the most skilled guard players are from Brazillian jujitsu? Or that when it comes to teaching the guard position, the best instruction is from BJJ curriculum (generally)?


    Quote Originally Posted by Gumby
    At any given time in any grappling tournament, someone has to be on the bottom, and someone has to be on top. For example, Jacare, Margarida, and Daniel Moraes are BJJ fighters who make their game happen on top.

    Thats also referring to an individuals style. Initially, BJJ was created to help the smaller man defeat the larger man. The reality of fighting is that this is very difficult when you're outweighed, hence the boring long time limit matches the Gracies used to have when MMA was in its infancy. At that time, there really werent any large or overly powerfull BJJ practitioners.

    Examples would be Diego Sanchez and Vitor Belfort as fighters who try to end quickly and brutally. In reference to what I italicized, Rodrigo Nogueira is a good example of someone who is proactive while in the guard position. Royce Gracie would be an example of someone who is more reactive and in line with what was traditional BJJ.
    I agree. Once again my generalizations were to the effect of what is traditionally expected/observed/understood about BJJ. As a any competetive martial art will, BJJ is changing and growing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gumby
    Wouldnt that make AJJ more in line with a MMA school?
    Sure would. "AJJ" was coined as a catch-all (somewhat facetiously, at the time). It was just as likely it could have been called any number of things.



    Quote Originally Posted by gumby
    All in all, as I said, I think submission wrestling has grown to incorporate so much of what works vs what doesnt that its so difficult to draw lines anymore, because quite frankly everyone's using the same thing. I can understand your references to guard work and the such, but any BJJ school I've been at (including Humaita) I see everyone fighting for the top position when they're training in BJJ

    In case you were wondering, I am one of those guard pulling whores :eusa_shhh
    Nuthin' wrong with that. just remember my favorite guard pass.
    Last edited by Scrapper; 1/03/2006 6:38pm at .
    And lo, Kano looked down upon the field and saw the multitudes. Amongst them were the disciples of Uesheba who were greatly vexed at his sayings. And Kano spake: "Do not be concerned with the mote in thy neighbor's eye, when verily thou hast a massive stick in thine ass".

    --Scrolls of Bujutsu: Chapter 5 vs 10-14.
  9. Phrost is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/03/2006 6:47pm

    Business Class Supporting Memberstaff
     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    AJJ is a MMA school. But since "MMA" isn't a style...
  10. Cassius is online now
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    Posted On:
    1/03/2006 6:49pm

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by UpaLumpa
    One of the greatest misconceptions is that the guard is somehow the pinnacle position according to bjj.
    This is usually due to watching clips as opposed to, you know, training.
    As I read this thread, an image of BJJers knocking each other down to pull guard first comes to mind.

    "As we all know, the prime position in BJJ is the guard, so I want you all to practice passing guard to the mount and then letting yourself get rolled. THEN you've got him right where you want him!"

    Gumby -- Since my last little tirade about guard-whores (don't know if you would remember that or not), I've come to appreciate how green my guard is/was. For the last two months, and until I feel like my guard is up to snuff, I've been/will be a total guard-pulling piece of ****.
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