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  1. xaviertr is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    30

    Posted On:
    5/28/2007 7:00pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: modern combatives

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    For the record, Thomas Turpen NEVER claimed to be a master of Baji or Choy Lay Fut. He claimed to have studied southern nan quan for 25 years having earned a sixth level black sash. His training with Master An was an effort to grow and continue learning as was his studies in Choy Lay Fut. As for being a closed door disciple, I have come to believe that that stems from a misunderstanding in translation on Tom's part.

    Master An is a man of meager means, and with the fear of losing students, hasn't been forthright with his students. I believe it is because he is afraid of losing the little income he has. I will say for the record that I have never studied with master An and I am not starting lessons with him, so I don't know if you are understanding right. I do not currently study Chinese martial arts of any kind. As for Tom "starting back," you are not getting the same story I am from Master An.

    As for the question regarding why a master would still study and learn from other teachers is concerned, it shows your inexperience and martial immaturity. Any REAL master is a lifelong student. Period. When you begin to think there is nothing left to learn, you have simply become too rigid or have bought into you own self-delusion. I have studied for over 27 years, refuse to call myself a master, and will always be a perpetual student.

    Let me explain a few things to those of you without decades of experience in the arts. First, if an instructor begins a second style or art, if it is reasonably similar to what he/she has already done, they will accomplish much in a short period. I personally am a student of a popular system that averages 3-4 years to black belt. I will more than likely reach that level in a little over a year. I have reached brown belt in just under nine months. Second, Master instructors learn new forms, techniques, etc. and incorporate them into what they do without "Mastering" the system they are learning from. Look at what Bruce Lee did. Green Dragon under John Allen in Akron, Ohio has at his disposal over 450 forms. Do you honestly believe that he "mastered" each form and the systems that they come from? I personally know a dozen "masters" that have learned and incorporated forms from his videos into what they teach. Brazilian Jiu0jitsu is another example. 3/4 of the schools/programs in the U.S. were started by blue, purple, and brown belts. We now have a large number of black belts, but in the late 90's that was not the case.

    I realize that it is easy to sit at your computer and point fingers, but unless you have done the leg work and have seen what I have, you are just speculating. When I tried to prove Tom's background I kept running into obstacles and prematurely jump to the conclusion that he was lying about his background. I was angered and set out to prove he was a fraud at all costs. In the end I found that most things I thought I knew were either wrong or misunderstood. I will say again, I am human and I made a mistake.

    Ronin, you and I both posted before we had all the facts. No hard feelings. I still don't think you have the full truth. An is only going to tell what he feels will not cost him something. I cannot blame him. He doesn't have much to begin with. I wish you success in your studies.
  2. Ronin.74 is offline

    霍氏八极拳徒弟

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    2,468

    Posted On:
    5/28/2007 7:34pm


     Style: CMA,Muay Thai ,Yudo,TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by xaviertr
    For the record, Thomas Turpen NEVER claimed to be a master of Baji or Choy Lay Fut. He claimed to have studied southern nan quan for 25 years having earned a sixth level black sash. His training with Master An was an effort to grow and continue learning as was his studies in Choy Lay Fut. As for being a closed door disciple, I have come to believe that that stems from a misunderstanding in translation on Tom's part.

    Master An is a man of meager means, and with the fear of losing students, hasn't been forthright with his students. I believe it is because he is afraid of losing the little income he has. I will say for the record that I have never studied with master An and I am not starting lessons with him, so I don't know if you are understanding right. I do not currently study Chinese martial arts of any kind. As for Tom "starting back," you are not getting the same story I am from Master An.

    As for the question regarding why a master would still study and learn from other teachers is concerned, it shows your inexperience and martial immaturity. Any REAL master is a lifelong student. Period. When you begin to think there is nothing left to learn, you have simply become too rigid or have bought into you own self-delusion. I have studied for over 27 years, refuse to call myself a master, and will always be a perpetual student.

    Let me explain a few things to those of you without decades of experience in the arts. First, if an instructor begins a second style or art, if it is reasonably similar to what he/she has already done, they will accomplish much in a short period. I personally am a student of a popular system that averages 3-4 years to black belt. I will more than likely reach that level in a little over a year. I have reached brown belt in just under nine months. Second, Master instructors learn new forms, techniques, etc. and incorporate them into what they do without "Mastering" the system they are learning from. Look at what Bruce Lee did. Green Dragon under John Allen in Akron, Ohio has at his disposal over 450 forms. Do you honestly believe that he "mastered" each form and the systems that they come from? I personally know a dozen "masters" that have learned and incorporated forms from his videos into what they teach. Brazilian Jiu0jitsu is another example. 3/4 of the schools/programs in the U.S. were started by blue, purple, and brown belts. We now have a large number of black belts, but in the late 90's that was not the case.

    I realize that it is easy to sit at your computer and point fingers, but unless you have done the leg work and have seen what I have, you are just speculating. When I tried to prove Tom's background I kept running into obstacles and prematurely jump to the conclusion that he was lying about his background. I was angered and set out to prove he was a fraud at all costs. In the end I found that most things I thought I knew were either wrong or misunderstood. I will say again, I am human and I made a mistake.

    Ronin, you and I both posted before we had all the facts. No hard feelings. I still don't think you have the full truth. An is only going to tell what he feels will not cost him something. I cannot blame him. He doesn't have much to begin with. I wish you success in your studies.
    As far as what Master An has told me Tom has not yet started taking lessons of any kind, but your right he could just be withholding info, not sure how, we his other students, would take it. Master An told me that you were present on Thursday when he met with Tom and discussed lessons, I may have misunderstood him and thought you were being included in those lessons.

    I am willing to accept that Tom may have mistranslated what Master An said in regards to "closed door disciple" issue, my Chinese is pretty decent and I still have some difficulty getting Master An's exact meaning sometimes (his accent is really thick). I think the idea of Tom being a "Master" in baji may stem from it saying on his website that he was a closed door disciple who studied Baji. Tom on his website also referred to himself as "Da Shifu", a title that Master An doesn't even use, which probably contributed to the idea that he was calling himself a Baji master. At worst it was misleading, at best it was just mis communicated (it is the internet afterall).

    I still have a couple of questions though if you have the time. Namely,

    1. Didn't you call and talk to his Choy Li Fut instructors personally and were told that they didn't know who he was?

    2. From your understanding is Tom taking private lessons in Baji or in Taiji? I could care less which one as long as Master An is being compensated.

    Thanks
  3. xaviertr is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    5/28/2007 8:57pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: modern combatives

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I did call Tom's Choy Lay Fut teacher. He said he didn't know Tom Turpen. I believed that Tom was claiming to be an instructor under Tat Wong. Upon further clarification, that was my misunderstanding, he stated he was studying under Tat Wong. Tom was involved with Master Wong's distance program and had tested to the belt before black sash. These tests are not handled by Master Wong, rather one of his instructors. So when I called he stated that he did not have a "black sash instructor" named Tom Turpen. You see, I was asking the wrong question based in my misunderstanding. After realizing the error I called again and everything checks out. Master Wong does not deal with students in the distance program until they are ready to test for black sash.

    From my understanding Tom is taking Baji Quan and Sun style Taiji privately with Master An. I do not know what their arrangement entails. I know that he and another instructor share time for the Sun Taiji. That may have been part of the misunderstanding in your last conversation. Also from my understanding Tom has been trying to refer people to Master An so that he can build his client base. IMHO, learning english would go a long way in preventing him from being taken advantage of as you say, and help him attract a greater number of students. He is definitely a talent martial arts master. I have seen him demonstrate a half dozen times at Tom's classes and at places like the Asian festival. Incredible. I hope to move that well when I am in my 70's. I love to watch him do sword.
  4. Ronin.74 is offline

    霍氏八极拳徒弟

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    Dec 2005
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    Posted On:
    5/28/2007 9:35pm


     Style: CMA,Muay Thai ,Yudo,TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks for the clarification
  5. Ronin.74 is offline

    霍氏八极拳徒弟

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    2,468

    Posted On:
    5/28/2007 10:52pm


     Style: CMA,Muay Thai ,Yudo,TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm still a little confused. He has a 6th level Black Sash in Southern Nan quan. Who did he recieve it from? I'm wondering because I can't remember what exactly it said on his old website in regards to this. If you could post that I would appreciate it.

    Thanks
    Last edited by Ronin.74; 5/28/2007 11:01pm at .
  6. It is Fake is offline
    It is Fake's Avatar

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    33,976

    Posted On:
    5/29/2007 1:16am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Let me explain a few things to those of you without decades of experience in the arts. First, if an instructor begins a second style or art, if it is reasonably similar to what he/she has already done, they will accomplish much in a short period. I personally am a student of a popular system that averages 3-4 years to black belt. I will more than likely reach that level in a little over a year. I have reached brown belt in just under nine months. Second, Master instructors learn new forms, techniques, etc. and incorporate them into what they do without "Mastering" the system they are learning from. Look at what Bruce Lee did. Green Dragon under John Allen in Akron, Ohio has at his disposal over 450 forms. Do you honestly believe that he "mastered" each form and the systems that they come from? I personally know a dozen "masters" that have learned and incorporated forms from his videos into what they teach. Brazilian Jiu0jitsu is another example. 3/4 of the schools/programs in the U.S. were started by blue, purple, and brown belts. We now have a large number of black belts, but in the late 90's that was not the case.

    I realize that it is easy to sit at your computer and point fingers, but unless you have done the leg work and have seen what I have, you are just speculating. When I tried to prove Tom's background I kept running into obstacles and prematurely jump to the conclusion that he was lying about his background.
    Wow very arrogant and has nothing to do with what I said. BL, green dragon studios, your time to Black Belt have nothing to do with Tom Turpen. If I count my total you are my junior. So, please don't cast aspersions.

    Second, I never said he couldn't train a second art. I said trying to say he is taking Taiji, after asking to get certifcation of Baji, sounds strange.

    Third you did a whole lot of pointing from your computer. I just summarized why your sudden 180 degree shift gives you no right to give Ronin a hard time.


    I was angered and set out to prove he was a fraud at all costs. In the end I found that most things I thought I knew were either wrong or misunderstood. I will say again, I am human and I made a mistake.
    Like I said before you add a whole bunch of unnecessary crap when this is all you need to say.
  7. It is Fake is offline
    It is Fake's Avatar

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    Posted On:
    5/29/2007 1:20am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thomas Turpen is a complete fraud. In 2002 he sought rank recognition by forming a martial arts organization called shengdiya Martial Arts Association. He duped several reputable martial artists into forming it, long enough to get a sixth degree black sash. He is a very intelligent and cunning person, that has duped kung fu masters and students alike. He claims a "dashi" title (meaning master), but he had the scroll printed for him in China on a visit and it has no organizational backing. He also claims a 4th Degree Black Belt in Tang Soo Do under Jeff Schnapp of New Mexico, but Jeff is one of Tom's best friends, and when he received the 4th degree there was no formal/public test (which sounds fishy to me). We recently exposed his deceit and for all intents and purposes his martial arts training hall is dead. He was also claiming to be a buddhist and taoist priest which we verified with the KTC center in Columbus, Ohio and the Mid-America Buddhist Association (both organizations he claimed ordination with) and he is a complete fraud. The Taoist ordination is self-awarded. He made most of these claims on his myspace (http://www.myspace.com/xiantan), but has changed his story several times since he was exposed. He still claims many of these things on myspace, although his website (www.usakungfu.homestead.com) is dead except for the background.
    This you and all your leg work. Notice the first sentence. You did that not Ronin, you.

    Turns out you did a whole lot of speculating yourself since, it was all a misunderstanding.
  8. xaviertr is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    5/29/2007 7:39am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: modern combatives

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Tom had a 5th degree black sash in southern five animals. I don't have the instructor's name with me right now, but I can get it later today. When the organization was formed he was awarded a sixth degree. We initially had issues verifying Tom's claims, but resolved the issue with some persistence.
  9. xaviertr is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    5/29/2007 7:46am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: modern combatives

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Outside of the Instructor's name, this will be my last post here. I created a bit of a firestorm when I arrived on this site. There seemd to be many discrepencies with Tom's background. In haste I jumped to conclusions and for that I apologize to those of you who have read and posted on this thread. If you need to reach me, you can email me at cattactical@yahoo.com. I wish you all success in your martial journey.

    Thomas
  10. xaviertr is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    5/29/2007 2:21pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: modern combatives

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Tom's instructor's name in southern 5 animals was Stephen Lam.
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