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  1. xaviertr is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    5/28/2007 1:29am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: modern combatives

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ronin74,

    There is nothing amiss with my posting. I met with Tom AND Master An on Thursday, May 24th to offer my apologies face to face. Master An was receiving an acupuncture treatment at Tom Turpen's office, prior to leaving to judge a tournament in Florida. So much for your story. I think most of what I initially believed was a mixture of misunderstanding, difficulty in obtaining records (that I eventually obtained or had cleared up) and deceit on the part of a couple of competitiors.

    After detailed investigation, Turpen does have Choy lay fut credentials, has and IS STILL training with Master An. There are 4 Masters with over 125 years of collective experience and impeccable reputations that vouch for Tom Turpen. My 180 degree turn (yes I went after tom with a vengence believing I was lied to and used, something I don't take easily) is due to a deeper level of investigation and the proof it has brought to the surface.

    When you are angry it is easy to misunderstand and jump to conclusions. I was wrong. It isn't easy admitting it publicly. My IP checked out and it is me (xaviertr, the original poster) writing this. PM me and I will give you contact info so we can talk. I don't like your accusations defaming my character. I will gladly meet you face to face so that you can see that I am not Turpen. We can discuss my character and you can say what you have to without hiding behind a computer.

    When I accused Tom, I did it publicly and had no problem doing it face to face. When I found that I was in error, I apologized publicly and face to face. That is called being a man with honor and dignity. I am not perfect, capable of my share of mistakes, and if I make them I try to rectify them.

    I wonder why someone like you has the need to defame others? My reasons have been clearly spelled out here and I was in error. What is your motive? Why are you so angry? I found a voice here when I was angry because YOU questioned his validity without even one shred of proof or taking the time to investigate on your own.

    Oh, yes. My first name is Thomas as well. Imagine that... more than one person with the same first name.... It has to be suspicious when that happens!
    Last edited by xaviertr; 5/28/2007 1:38am at .
  2. Don Gwinn is online now
    Don Gwinn's Avatar

    BJJ wins again!

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    Jun 2004
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    Virden, IL
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    3,570

    Posted On:
    5/28/2007 10:25am

    supporting member
     Style: Guns

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    **** that. You can start by posting the actual evidence you now claim to have discovered. Who are the four masters who vouch for Turpen?

    Understand, too, that you appeared out of nowhere. To my knowledge, Ronin.74's credibility has not been questioned on Bullshido since he joined. If he says An laughs about Turpin, and you say An trains Turpin, we have your word against his. That doesn't turn out well for you.

    I don't believe you're actually so dense that you think your 180-degree reversal should have passed without shock and surprise, so that leaves two possibilities:

    1. You really were wrong, and so was Ronin, and he's now baldly lying in an effort to destroy a good man (Turpen) for no reason that I can think of.

    2. You haven't changed your mind at all, but have decided to defend Turpen for reasons of your own--off the top of my head, either he's found a way to buy you off or he's managed to frighten you somehow.
    *********************************************
  3. Ronin.74 is online now

    霍氏八极拳徒弟

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    Posted On:
    5/28/2007 1:23pm


     Style: CMA,Muay Thai ,Yudo,TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by xaviertr
    Ronin74,

    There is nothing amiss with my posting. I met with Tom AND Master An on Thursday, May 24th to offer my apologies face to face. Master An was receiving an acupuncture treatment at Tom Turpen's office, prior to leaving to judge a tournament in Florida. So much for your story. I think most of what I initially believed was a mixture of misunderstanding, difficulty in obtaining records (that I eventually obtained or had cleared up) and deceit on the part of a couple of competitiors.

    After detailed investigation, Turpen does have Choy lay fut credentials, has and IS STILL training with Master An. There are 4 Masters with over 125 years of collective experience and impeccable reputations that vouch for Tom Turpen. My 180 degree turn (yes I went after tom with a vengence believing I was lied to and used, something I don't take easily) is due to a deeper level of investigation and the proof it has brought to the surface.

    When you are angry it is easy to misunderstand and jump to conclusions. I was wrong. It isn't easy admitting it publicly. My IP checked out and it is me (xaviertr, the original poster) writing this. PM me and I will give you contact info so we can talk. I don't like your accusations defaming my character. I will gladly meet you face to face so that you can see that I am not Turpen. We can discuss my character and you can say what you have to without hiding behind a computer.

    When I accused Tom, I did it publicly and had no problem doing it face to face. When I found that I was in error, I apologized publicly and face to face. That is called being a man with honor and dignity. I am not perfect, capable of my share of mistakes, and if I make them I try to rectify them.

    I wonder why someone like you has the need to defame others? My reasons have been clearly spelled out here and I was in error. What is your motive? Why are you so angry? I found a voice here when I was angry because YOU questioned his validity without even one shred of proof or taking the time to investigate on your own.

    Oh, yes. My first name is Thomas as well. Imagine that... more than one person with the same first name.... It has to be suspicious when that happens!
    Xaviertr/Thomas,

    I am sure you can understand the tone of my emails from Friday. I jumped online and after two + months of no activity on this thread I find the title of my thread changed and find that you had done a complete reversal in your opinions of Tom Turpen. I was shocked and in complete disbelief at what I was seeing and naturally I reacted somewhat hastily in my posts, for that I apologize.

    I spoke with Master An on Friday and he completely refutes anything that you have stated above. I have known Master An personally for over 2 years and have no reasons to think that he is being decietful in what he says. You on the otherhand I have never met, although I did offer to meet you on a couple of occassions, so of course I am going to take Master An's word over yours.

    From how you state things Master An is lying. I have entertained this idea in regards to this situation. Master An may feel that I and other students have a certain degree of animosity towards Turpen and feels that it would be better to not tell us that he is teaching Tom in fear that we will leave him. This is not the case. I have met Tom Turpen on one occassion and found him to be very personable, my only grudge with Tom is his claims to be studying privately with Master An when he isn't/wasn't.

    If he is in fact training with Master An on a regular basis privately than I have no problem with him. I wish him well and would encourage him to come and train with the rest of us in class. But if he's not then he needs to stop making claims that he is.

    I would like to straighten this out and find out what is really going on, I will be meeting with Master An on Wendnesday at the rec center off Oakland near campus for training. I will be there around 6 or 6:30, it would be great if you and Tom could come by, then we could all meet with Master An together and get to the bottom of this.

    It would also be good if you could provide the you have proof verifying Tom's Choy Li Fut credentials, previously you had proof showing that his creds were bogus, now you have proof showing that they aren't. It would help if you could provide proof either way. I would love to PM you and talk about this but you need a minimum of 50 posts before you can get those privileges, last I looked you were a little short. I hope to see you on Wednesday, enjoy your holiday.
    Last edited by Ronin.74; 5/28/2007 1:27pm at .
  4. It is Fake is offline
    It is Fake's Avatar

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    Posted On:
    5/28/2007 1:32pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Okay Ronin,

    I'm still catching up on this thread.

    I'm going to send you a PM.

    I have a couple of questions to ask but, I don't want to give anyone any ideas.
  5. Ronin.74 is online now

    霍氏八极拳徒弟

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    Posted On:
    5/28/2007 2:02pm


     Style: CMA,Muay Thai ,Yudo,TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ok I just spoke with Master to confirm my training schedule for Wednesday. Without even asking him he told me that he did meet with Tom and Thomas (xaviertr) on Thursday for an acupuncture treatment. He said that they inquired about meeting with Master An to study Taiji Quan privately and Master An informed me of what the hourly rate for the private would be.

    Master An stated that their first class would be Tuesday this week and prior to this they had not met with him for training. All of my previous posts were based on what information I had from Master An, it is possible their was a communication breakdown between he and I on Thursday or that he was just not ready to admit that he was going to be training Tom again not knowing how I and other students would react. Either way I apologize for posting info that was not accurate.

    When I spoke to Master An on Friday one of the last things I told him was that I didn't care who he was teaching as long as it was true. If people were claiming to train with him when they weren't than it would be a problem. I think this statement may have prompted him to tell me what was going on in regards to Tom's training. Master An told me that Tom will be training privately in the future but is in no way a "closed door disciple" as Tom had stated previously in his MA creds.

    Master An has been taken advantage of and ripped off in every major city that he has gone to in the past 10 years by other members of the CMA community, knowing this I naturally am interested in protecting his credibility as best I can, this includes outing people using his name as a reference to their MA skills. I still believe that for a time Tom Turpen was guilty of doing this. By making claims of "closed door discipleship" when he in fact only had 2-3 months worth of training was fraudulent. When xaveirtr started his investigation and discovered that Tom Turpen was not a "disciple" Tom quickly removed this claim from his websites.

    It appears that at least for now Tom is going to be training privately with Master An and that has been confirmed by Master An. I wish him all the best with his training and good luck in the future.
  6. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/28/2007 2:08pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Interesting. Thing is why do you need more "training" if you are a Master?

    Yes, I know it is Taji but, yeah you know where I'm going.

    It also doesn't explain the implication of "private lessons."

    This isn't going to end well for your Master Ronin.
  7. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/28/2007 2:12pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I wonder why someone like you has the need to defame others? My reasons have been clearly spelled out here and I was in error. What is your motive? Why are you so angry? I found a voice here when I was angry because YOU questioned his validity without even one shred of proof or taking the time to investigate on your own.
    180 degree turn or not this is a bogus statement. Apologize for what you did and take the blame it has nothing to do with Ronin.

    The 180 you did doesn't support:

    Private Lessons
    Master Level in Baji
    Closed Door Disciple.

    Take a long look in the mirror, the only anger I saw was on your end. If it is true he has only seen 2 months worth of material then he is bullshido.

    If he was just teaching what he knew it is cool. If he is teaching an art, as a Master, with only 25% of the art, he is bullshido.
    Last edited by It is Fake; 5/28/2007 2:15pm at .
  8. Ronin.74 is online now

    霍氏八极拳徒弟

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    Posted On:
    5/28/2007 3:11pm


     Style: CMA,Muay Thai ,Yudo,TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake
    Interesting. Thing is why do you need more "training" if you are a Master?

    Yes, I know it is Taji but, yeah you know where I'm going.

    It also doesn't explain the implication of "private lessons."

    This isn't going to end well for your Master Ronin.
    I agree but there is not anything I can really do about it. It is up to him who he teaches and what he teaches. Hopefully soon I will be moving back to Columbus and I as well as the senior student will be training with Master An regularly in effort to learn all we can from him.

    At present I am almost finished with the empty hand routines of Huo Style Baji at which point I will move on the 8 weapons. Once I learn the 8 weapons I will probably spend the rest of my time trying to perfect my technique in the system. After many years of training I have decided that the last system I will train in will be Baji, and it is there that I will focus my efforts for many years to come. When Master An finally returns to China some years from now I can assure you the senior student and myself will be the last people to refer to ourselves as "Master" or "shifu" and will only teach in Master An's place if he asks us to personally.

    I always find it funny how many people claim the title of "Master" that don't really deserve it, where as I myself have been asked repeatedly by other instructors to teach at their schools and have had students in other schools refer to me as a "master" (after which I always correct them, I am still a student in my mind), while others just take the title up because they think they deserve it.

    In the future when Tom Turpen, or xaviertr for that matter, are teaching students and they claim that they took private lessons with Master An, at least it will be true. That's all that I can ask.
  9. Ronin.74 is online now

    霍氏八极拳徒弟

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    Posted On:
    5/28/2007 3:33pm


     Style: CMA,Muay Thai ,Yudo,TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin.74
    Xaviertr/Thomas,

    I would like to straighten this out and find out what is really going on, I will be meeting with Master An on Wendnesday at the rec center off Oakland near campus for training. I will be there around 6 or 6:30, it would be great if you and Tom could come by, then we could all meet with Master An together and get to the bottom of this.

    Xaviertr,

    No need to meet Wednesday unless you would like to. As far as I am concerned my last conversation with Master An cleared everything up. In the future I will try to get all the facts straight before posting. My apologies for doubting your word but please understand that at the time it was necessary.
  10. Ronin.74 is online now

    霍氏八极拳徒弟

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    Posted On:
    5/28/2007 3:35pm


     Style: CMA,Muay Thai ,Yudo,TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake
    180 degree turn or not this is a bogus statement. Apologize for what you did and take the blame it has nothing to do with Ronin.

    The 180 you did doesn't support:

    Private Lessons
    Master Level in Baji
    Closed Door Disciple.

    Take a long look in the mirror, the only anger I saw was on your end. If it is true he has only seen 2 months worth of material then he is bullshido.

    If he was just teaching what he knew it is cool. If he is teaching an art, as a Master, with only 25% of the art, he is bullshido.
    Quoted for truth. Although, for what it's worth, before Turpen took down his websites he edited them to remove claims of Master level in Baji and closed door discipleship.
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