Kind of embarrassing...

**UpaLumpa** · Posted On: 12/28/2005 12:07pm

Hopefully this isn't a breach of etiquette but you guys have about a billion rule threads so delete the thread if it's a problem.

Here's my problem:
I've been getting sleeve choked like a newbie.
I know what you're thinking, a sleeve choke, you mean the 4 month white belt submission?
Yep.
Here's what's happening, for some reason the purples and other blues have decided that revisiting this crappy class of subs en masse on my neck is a good idea.
Last night I figured out a big piece of why: when in side control or under half I underhook their arm on the side I've got their leg trapped. My reason for doing this is to take the back, which until about a week ago I was doing with great success (normal give and take of learning people's current games). If I don't have the underhook the chokes are of course easy to defend and prevent.
So I know a lot of people work to the back from under side and half, how do you defend against the sleeve chokes? Or is it, as I suspect, as simple as setting it up better and catching them unawares?

**Aesopian** · Posted On: 12/28/2005 12:18pm

If you mean the ezekiel choke, my favorite counter has become to block the hand coming across the neck with my hand, and grab their elbow with the other, and bring my hands together for a wristlock. No one has tapped, but they sure do give up on the choke in a hurry.

**UpaLumpa** · Posted On: 12/28/2005 12:24pm

Just all variants of an ezekiel.

What you're describing isn't as easy when you've worked for a deep underhook.

**Aesopian** · Posted On: 12/28/2005 2:46pm

Are you making sure to keep your other arm (that's no underhooking) on their far biceps to block it from crossfacing you or going behind your head for the choke?

**Jerry_Sizzler** · Posted On: 12/28/2005 2:53pm

i have a lot of success with this choke (ezekiel), including vs experienced grapplers.

the key to defending this choke is gettting them above your head. this kills the angle they need to put good pressure across your throat. when they're above you, you don't have to worry about it and you can get back to whatever you were working on.

edit: i'm assuming they're already behind your head and across your throat

**UpaLumpa** · Posted On: 12/28/2005 3:53pm

Originally Posted by Aesopian

Are you making sure to keep your other arm (that's no underhooking) on their far biceps to block it from crossfacing you or going behind your head for the choke?

Apparently not. I've typically worried more about the top arm.
Thanks.

**UpaLumpa** · Posted On: 12/28/2005 3:55pm

Its always something stupid and obvious isn't it.
Now acquit:
:chewy:

**Red Elvis** · Posted On: 1/03/2006 10:24pm

Originally Posted by UpaLumpa

I've been getting sleeve choked like a newbie...

Last night I figured out a big piece of why: when in side control or under half I underhook their arm on the side I've got their leg trapped. My reason for doing this is to take the back, which until about a week ago I was doing with great success

I have an armbar technique that is my bread and butter quick tap move. I tap people like crazy with it the first time I roll with them regardless of size and often regardless of skill. Then something happens. They learn to see my technique coming and guess what... it no longer works.

You have been successful with a move that everybody has caught on too. Now you need to vary your technique and learn something else. Put your under hook on the shelf for a month and learn a new series of escapes, sweeps and attacks that don't rely on that particular movement. Not only will this improve your game but then you can bust out the old school after they have forgotten and take their backs again.

What have you accomplished? Now they have no idea what the hell you might do as you have added more to your game. Ponder this young padiwan learner!

**Zendetta** · Posted On: 1/03/2006 11:20pm

Originally Posted by Aesopian

If you mean the ezekiel choke, my favorite counter has become to block the hand coming across the neck with my hand, and grab their elbow with the other, and bring my hands together for a wristlock. No one has tapped, but they sure do give up on the choke in a hurry.

i think i know what you mean. You hyperflex the wrist?

Most of the guys I've rolled with didn't really see it coming. No tapouts either, but they get edgy and squirmy.

And here I was thinking that time in japanese jujutsu was wasted!

**UpaLumpa** · Posted On: 1/04/2006 9:25am

Originally Posted by Red Elvis

You have been successful with a move that everybody has caught on too. Now you need to vary your technique and learn something else. Put your under hook on the shelf for a month and learn a new series of escapes, sweeps and attacks that don't rely on that particular movement. Not only will this improve your game but then you can bust out the old school after they have forgotten and take their backs again.

What have you accomplished? Now they have no idea what the hell you might do as you have added more to your game. Ponder this young padiwan learner!

You're right. I used to do this conciously every few months.
I forgot at some point.