12/27/2005 2:01pm, #51
Originally Posted by I aint punchy!?
- Join Date
- Feb 2005
Actually, come to think of it, he shot one leg out to push toward me before he really launched.
12/27/2005 2:24pm, #52
Originally Posted by TekkaMaki
- Join Date
- Aug 2002
- Manhattan Beach, California, United States
- Muay Thai, Judo, BJJ
12/27/2005 4:27pm, #53Originally Posted by kickcatcher
In general MMA guys train to have a broad responce to a general situation rather than lots of really specifiuc moves -this approach favours Alive training and the Alive training builds the approach. That general approach is (IMO) equally applicable to SD except that some of the reference points are slightly different. The worry would be doing sport-orientated MMA training and subconsiously trying to apply the same responses (a few of which are not applicable) to SD. An analogy would be a Judoka who turtles up when knocked to the ground (a common tactic in Judo). Etc.
12/27/2005 8:26pm, #54Originally Posted by PointyShinyBurn
12/28/2005 8:18am, #55Originally Posted by TekkaMaki
12/28/2005 2:52pm, #56Originally Posted by PointyShinyBurn
The restraint you suggest is so unreliable an d counter-productive as to be stupid (no offence) in SD. If you are restraining someone you really need to make it clear to them that you are in control -which is where little guys (myself included) are at a disadvantage. Deliberately putting yourself on the ground under him, even if you have him in a guillotine or whatever, leaves you with nowhere to hide if people joining in and kicking the **** out of you.
An alturnative restraint that you may fanncy practicing is to tackle him low (not a proper shoot) and secure a good grip around his hips ("body lock" or whatever you choose to call it). Use it to manhandle him into a wall where you can use your grappling skills to remain dominant as you put him on the floor (against the wall) and pin/GnP/choke him. I've trained this in an alive fashion and the better your grappling skills, the more viable this approach is. It seems to work. On the down side, when we pressure tested it against a really big guy with some MMA training behind him, I could only achieve about 50% success (he weighed almost twice my weight).You are a total Douchbag. Train more, post nevermore.
FickleFingerOfFate -08-21-2007 08:59 AM
just die already.Plasma - 08-20-2007 11:45 PM
Best MA website ever!!!!!: http://www.dogjudo.co.uk/
12/28/2005 5:02pm, #57Originally Posted by TekkaMaki
I also cross train as much as I can, and I often spar with MMA guys and roll with BJJ guys because I know how much this will improve my overall ability.
I consider myself a progressive martial artist.
The death of MMA will be due to people like you, enthusiastic wannabes who think they're progressive rennaisance men when they question the self defense value of buttscooting. Simply put, you are unqualified to comment on MMA.
As for your "arguement", maybe you didn't get the memo, but a long time ago we decided that arguing about the "street" and/or "multiple opponent" use of a technique makes you more than likely an ivory -towerfied man-child who makes Postmodern Analysts look like grizzled, veteran war reporters.
If you can use guard in MMA, do it.
"The only important elements in any society
are the artistic and the criminal,
because they alone, by questioning the society's values,
can force it to change."-Samuel R. Delany
RENDERING GELATINOUS WINDMILL OF DICKS
THIS IS GOING TO BE THE BEST NON-EUCLIDIAN SPLATTERJOUST EVER
It seems that the only people who support anarchy are faggots, who want their pathetic immoral lifestyle accepted by the mainstream society. It wont be so they try to create their own.-Oldman34, friend to all children
12/28/2005 5:27pm, #58Originally Posted by kickcatcher
12/28/2005 6:41pm, #59Originally Posted by hedgehogey
Originally Posted by hedgehogey
Originally Posted by hedgehoney
The death of MMA will more likely be due to overspecialization. I'm enthusiastic to say the least, but I'm not some MMA wannabe. I would like to learn more about it, but I'm really not interested in competition. As far as being "unqualified to comment on MMA" that's retarded. People who watch football comment on that, people who watch boxing comment on that, people who watch MMA comment on it. Aside from the fact that there is nothing I have ever seen happen in an MMA ring that is remotely foreign to me. Am I an expert? No. But to say that only an expert is allowed to observe and disucss a subject is completely ludiscrous.
Originally Posted by hedgehoney
Nor would I use the term "butt-scooting." Having seen a few fights in which I wondered why a fighter was lying on his back letting his opponent kick his legs until he couldn't stand up anymore I doubted the usefulness of going to your back when your opponent is standing. It still seems like a goofy thing to do, although after listening to what people have had to say about it I think I may have been mistaken about that.
If you want to get all uppity on someone for making this an argument about RBSD, then talk to KC.
Now, back to the whole "pulling guard" debate. It just doesn't seem like a good idea to me, in MMA or anywhere else, and I hate it with a passion when people pull guard on me while grappling. Luckily, using my height I can stack out of it pretty easily. Now, we've all seen what happens when an MMA fighter gets stacked out of his guard. He gets punches rained down on him. So, pulling guard doesn't seem like a great idea. I've seen the pulling of guard being used for stalling alot as well, with the double underhooks or some other control on the head or body. However, the fighter pulling guard always winds up laying on his back, and while he isn't getting beaten, he can't really do anything else, either. Once he lets the control on the head or body go, his opponent is likely to begin striking, but at the same time he can't do anything to his opponent until he releases.
Someone said earlier that in a self defense context they'd rather be in guard because it's a control position. It's not a control position, it's a defensive position. The man on top is no longer entirely in control, but neither is the man on bottom. The man on bottom is simply in a position from which he can regain control. The man on top can still pass, or he can ignore the guard and use punches or even go for the much hated can opener neck crank. Even more, in MMA we see sucky grapplers use the guard to stall, sometimes they get beaten anyway and only skilled grapplers are able to utilize the guard to win a fight.
The guard, in a whole, is not something I'd go for - it's just an alternative to being stuck flat on one's back. Better to use your legs to try and maintain control of the opponent than to give up control completely and allow oneself to be mounted, however better never being on your back at all.
12/28/2005 7:38pm, #60
TekkaMaki. I caught myself agreeing with some of what you're saying. Then I had some food and a shower and came back and read it again.
And I realized that your comments are largely based on lack of understanding. You might be pissed at me for wording it like that, but the reason is:
You seem to be under the impression that you can choose the progress of a fight. You can't. You see only failure where others may see options. You account only for yourself and your own preferences, instead of judging technique or strategy on a general basis. Since you have no other view to see this from, let me give you mine. I'm a small guy, and regardless of me actually meeting guys around my own weight, usually I will without a doubt have to meet larger people. Here's the alternative to what you're seeing. You're seeing a guy pull guard on purpose, attempting some stalling strategy and slowing down the "action". I'm seeing a guy who fails an attempt to control and perhaps throw his opponent and needs to regain a safer position instead of wildly scrambling for something "better" than guard, and leaving himself literally buttfucked. He pulls guard to ensure his safety. From here he can now work to: Get a better position by sweeps for instance. Or, defend himself and wait for an opportunity for submission.
You seem to make the same assumption again and again, that somehow people are controlling the fight when opting for the guard. But different positions yield different chances and different results for different people. I will always be better off my back than in a "dominating" position for a number of reasons. I am small, people will believe I'm easily overpowered. They may find in a guard position that I am not. Because I'm small, I will often HAVE to utilise the guard to defend myself. Because this is what usually happens when grappling, crappling or anything else. I get a lot of training doing just that, and as a result this is where I improve the most.
You say it's a bad idea to pull guard because you can get stacked and punched. Well if we follow you train of thought it's a bad idea to lie in someone elses guard too because you can be submitted. This is quite obvious to anyone with any remote skill, but again this is NOT a game of choice. If it is, then quite frankly, what the **** are you doing fighting at all, you should have won allready.
The reason I comment at all is because from what you're saying it sounds like you're either crappling around with shitty people and have never actually met someone who uses the guard well. Or you have misunderstood the entire "big picture" of a fight if you will. The fact that this is not something to control and that knowing your positions and using their options will be crucial to anyone. And if something works, then why **** with it just because someone doesn't like it?
Viewing the guard as a generally inferior position to most situations is one of the worst mistakes anyone can ever do.More human than human is our motto.