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  1. Stick is offline
    Stick's Avatar

    Mostly, I just sit here. Mostly.

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    Posted On:
    12/27/2005 5:20pm

    hall of famestaff
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If I shin check and then attack, I have failed to take advantage of him being on one leg and am essentially just attacking someone who's in fighting stance in which case this thread would be "kicking" and not "counter kicking".
  2. j416to is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/27/2005 5:38pm

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai, Kenjutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yes, that's correct. I'm not suggesting that you're wrong. But I am agreeing with Albert. That counter isn't easy, not in a ring fight, not at full speed.

    It might be a reasonable thing to be looking for, to be waiting to apply, when you know your opponent is only going to kick you, or mostly going to kick you. But if you have to worry about getting punched, and you're fighting in ring with a more advanced opponent, a faster opponent, you might not be quick enough to complete that counter. In that case it's better to shin check first, then counter.

    And you're not exactly attacking someone who's in fighting stance, because onced you've shin checked your opponent's round house kick, you're able to counter with a punch or kick quicker than he's able to return back to his fighting stance. That's the value of shin checking first, you just have to put your foot down and punch, or kick. While your opponent has to regain his balance and rotate backwards into his fighting stance.
  3. j416to is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/27/2005 5:49pm

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai, Kenjutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you think about these two options as two moves, it might make more sense.

    The side step - cut kick

    1) first move is the side step right. The side step is a semi-avoidance move.
    2) second move is the cut kick to the support leg. The cut kick is the counter strike.

    Here you're not really safe from being kicked until you've completed the second move.

    Shin check-counter punch

    1) first move is the shin check. The shin check is, as you've pointed out, the blocking move.
    2) second move is a return punch or a kick. The return punch or kick is the counter strike.

    Here you're safe after the first move.
  4. Stick is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/27/2005 5:50pm

    hall of famestaff
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you are capable of moving laterally I faile to see how you have to know the kick is coming to pull this off anymore than any other counter in the book. Hell, you can use the same sort of step to get in elbow, punch, clinch or knee, the most important element is getting in there and taking the sting off of their round kick.

    Also, this is easier to pull off the higher your opponent's kick is. You can't typically shin check a kick to the ribs or head, but you can move in and with the motion of the kick and strike. As I mentioned, in a TKD/karate setting this may be easier because your opponents are more likely to be kicking for your head.

    I am half blind, for me, movement and evasion are a much better option than any solid blocking; I cannot always judge just where a kick or punch is, I am better off not being there or getting to where the blow won't matter. I understand that my situation is different and what may be a better option for me may not work for everyone else- oh, and I'm always working on getting in and clinching or going straight for the TD, I do not do straight up kickbxoing as I'm at too much of a physical dissadvantage and my sparring always includes a grappling element, unless of course it's one of those times we're working on one thing in particular.

    I am not nor do I have any desire to be an MT or kickboxing ring fighter.
  5. j416to is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/27/2005 6:06pm

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai, Kenjutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Okay, what you're say, assuming that the kick is going to be a high kick, makes total sense. Yes, then in that case you'll have more than enough time to step right and then cut kick.

    When you're fighting someone who might kick you high or low, unless you're really very fast, or really very talented, you're going to be able to recognize that a kick is coming, but not whether it's high or low. In that case you wall up, you shin check and cover your upper body and head with your forearm and gloves. If it turns out to be a low kick, you end up blocking it with your shin. If it turns out to be a chest high kick, you block it with your forearm. If it turns out to be a head high kick, you block it with your gloves.

    I would think that if you're half blind, it might actually be better to wall up and block first, unless you're really very fast, fast enough to evade and then counter. But you know better than me, I accept your experience over my opinion, every time.
  6. Stick is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/27/2005 6:17pm

    hall of famestaff
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If I wall up against someone with quick hands and feet I can't typically block the 3rd or even 2nd technique in the combo that might be on its way, a blocking mentality typically leads to me being overwhelmed as I honestly cannot see everything well enough to block it. I'm better off moving away or in as soon as I see, well, anything even if that means I ocassionally eat a leg kick or jab, as long as I move away or in and don't let people tee off at my worst range (punching, for those of you wondering) I'm alright.

    Kicks are so much easier to detect than punches, good boxers **** me up.
  7. j416to is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/27/2005 6:36pm

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai, Kenjutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Do you have a strategy for countering, after you've walled up? Or are you walling up, trying to block as many strikes as possible, until you finally sense a lull, until you sense an opening to counter?

    It might be better to think of walling up for the initial strike, and them moving and countering the next couple of techniques. Thinking that way might serve you better, it might keep you out of a blocking mindset.

    This is my biggest challenge, I have trouble with transitions.
  8. Stick is offline
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    Mostly, I just sit here. Mostly.

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    Posted On:
    12/27/2005 6:54pm

    hall of famestaff
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If I end up walling I immediatly try to close the distance for clinch or TD and am no longer interested in trading blows
  9. j416to is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/27/2005 7:08pm

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai, Kenjutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah, that makes sense. My clinching sucks, I'm always trying to get back into striking range.
  10. Omar is offline

    Baji demigod.

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    Posted On:
    12/27/2005 7:11pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Chinese Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by j416to
    Albert is correct. This is not the easiest counter. This counter is two moves, the step to the right, and then the cut kick. Both must be completed correctly, otherwise you end up getting kicked. The shin check is the easier counter, because it's only one move. The shin block neutralizes the kick, then you can do whatever you want after that, return with a punch or a kick.
    Too slow IMO.

    Better to try and ingrain the habit in this clip:

    http://s35.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3...20SOJ31IOY2BJS

    I know it's not a counterkick but if you are countering low kicks it's just more efficient than a 1-2 thing and easier to learn than cut kicking a low kick.
    Fighting evil and upholding justice in blue silk pajamas baby!
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=UGaYD_wcaIg

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=6Uepo9ahg-M

    Bah!!! Puny Humans.


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