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  1. Stick is offline
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    Mostly, I just sit here. Mostly.

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    Posted On:
    12/24/2005 12:31pm

    hall of famestaff
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Counter kicking

    Easiest counter to any round kick- MT or karate/tkd- is something anyone and everyone should be able to do.

    Assume you and your opponent are both standing with a left lead.

    My opponent throws a right round kick- his rear leg, power kick'n- in this instance I step my right leg forward and to my right so that I am walking both into my opponent and to his left- away from the kick. The left leg follows my step and just kicks solid into the opponent's standing leg; if he does not fall you should be in good position to follow with a right cross or elbow depending upon the distance.

    This counter can be done against a round kick to the leg, midsection, or head. It shold be practiced against all of them.

    This counter works out just as well under karate/tkd rules which often do not allow leg kicks but do permit groin shots. Simply aim the leg kick higher, and if you do end up taking him out at the inner thigh just say it was an honest mistake- you really meant to crush his penis. This counter/drill is something I picked up in MMA and have successfully applied to TKD.

    It's a satisfying feeling to to knock a man over with very little effort while he's trying to boot you in the head.
  2. Red Elvis is offline
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    Da Komrads... Again you are MadPelvisOwn3d!

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    Posted On:
    12/24/2005 6:09pm

    supporting member
     Style: Spetsnaz Shovel-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'll add some quick notes to this as I love doing this as well:

    1. You can do this effectively against either his front or rear kicks.

    2. Ideally the target would be the inside of the knee or the soft unconditioned meat of the inner thigh. (The knee is best not targeted in practice because when hit hard can cause serious damage to them).

    3. More likely than not you are still going to receive his kick however it has very reduced power due to your stepping into them at the 45 and the removal of his base.

    4. A couple of these from the get go will really discourage your opponent from continuing to kick you.

    5. Timing is critical as you should either beat his kick or hit simultaneously. Don't let him kick you then do this as you have lost the advantage. Practice practice practice.
    .
    :icon_twis
    .

    To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence;
    Supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without spilling your Guinness.
    Sun "Fu Man JhooJits" Tzu, the Art of War & Guinness
  3. FighterJones is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/26/2005 9:08pm


     Style: LARPing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    we did shitloads of counters in tkd that worked like magic if you actually did it.
    This sounds stupid, but THIS is where back hook and backside kicks come in handy the most.
    ie, they throw a sloppy telegraphed read round kick, you throw a backhook or backside (if they throw a rear right legged round kick, you throw a right legged spin kick) at their face. KTFO.
    Then there were teh simple ones that we drilled constantly, like they kick at you - you step back just so slightly that they miss you then slam a kick back with the leg you stepped back at.
    I don't really kick much anymore, so im not sure how these relate to real fighting, but i know these worked excellent in tkd competition.
    And please forgive me for being extremely inarticulate.
  4. albert is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/27/2005 12:29am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dai Tenshi
    Easiest counter to any round kick- MT or karate/tkd- is something anyone and everyone should be able to do.

    Assume you and your opponent are both standing with a left lead.

    My opponent throws a right round kick- his rear leg, power kick'n- in this instance I step my right leg forward and to my right so that I am walking both into my opponent and to his left- away from the kick. The left leg follows my step and just kicks solid into the opponent's standing leg; if he does not fall you should be in good position to follow with a right cross or elbow depending upon the distance.

    This counter can be done against a round kick to the leg, midsection, or head. It shold be practiced against all of them.

    This counter works out just as well under karate/tkd rules which often do not allow leg kicks but do permit groin shots. Simply aim the leg kick higher, and if you do end up taking him out at the inner thigh just say it was an honest mistake- you really meant to crush his penis. This counter/drill is something I picked up in MMA and have successfully applied to TKD.

    It's a satisfying feeling to to knock a man over with very little effort while he's trying to boot you in the head.

    Against someone who can really kick, or someone who sets up their kicks well with other strikes, this can be really difficult to time. That is, I don't think it's the easiest kick counter.

    In a MT setting, the counter I use the most and to greatest effect is simply shin checking and coming back with a switch kick (against a right kick, assuming both people are in an orthodox stance) and right straight. This basic counter should be familiar to MT stylists, and I think it's definitely simpler than the one you mention. You can tack on a left hook and other strikes as necessary. It's important not to simply trade a kick for a kick - but to make your opponent pay (i.e. don't just throw one counter kick, but follow it up). Obviously, you can also counter with the rear leg after checking instead of the lead.

    Of course, if you can dump him on his ass with a well-placed inner thigh kick as you point out, that's valid too. But I feel it's one of those "easier said than done moves" like parrying a good teep. I'm not saying don't learn it, it's just that you better drill it a lot before you think it's going to work. Yet, someone might use your counter with greater effectiveness in a karate/TKD setting as you say. I never knew the counter when I did TKD.
    Last edited by albert; 12/27/2005 11:44am at .
  5. ojgsxr6 is offline

    Dorkus Malorkus

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    Posted On:
    12/27/2005 1:03am

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing/BJJudo/Crossfit

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    When the step is made into the opponent are you effectively opening or switching your stance, similar to a switch kick?
  6. FighterJones is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/27/2005 1:27am


     Style: LARPing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    yeah i forgot to mention the switch kick.
    thats a handy tool.
  7. Stick is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/27/2005 9:42am

    hall of famestaff
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You're effectivly switching, thatis to one hip is coming forward, your kicking leg doesn't come for anything but to kick- don't step with it. You step out with your right leg and kick with your left if he kicks with his right, and you step out with your left and kick with your right if he kicks with his left; depending upon what stance your in this can be something of a switch kick or simply a widening of your stance.

    Step out with one leg and follow hard with the other.

    Albert, I learned this from an MT guy.
  8. j416to is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/27/2005 4:12pm

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     Style: Muay Thai, Kenjutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Albert is correct. This is not the easiest counter. This counter is two moves, the step to the right, and then the cut kick. Both must be completed correctly, otherwise you end up getting kicked. The shin check is the easier counter, because it's only one move. The shin block neutralizes the kick, then you can do whatever you want after that, return with a punch or a kick.

    This is fun drill, definitely, but it works because you know the kick is coming, and you're not focusing on getting punched in the face. To make this work you have to know the kick is coming and you're simply waiting for it to happen, or you're just really fast and your opponent is really slow, or you're only sparring at half speed.

    This counter will probably work against an inexperienced opponent that you know is trying to kick you, over and over. Maybe that's why it works well in TKD, because you're less concerned about getting punched, because you know the kicks are coming?

    Muay Thai cut kicks are more often thrown after you've secured one of your opponent's legs. Either by catching it after a block, or when your opponent is tired and you've managed to decoyed him into leaving his shin check leg dangling in the air.
  9. Stick is offline
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    Mostly, I just sit here. Mostly.

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    Posted On:
    12/27/2005 5:16pm

    hall of famestaff
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Blocking is not typically considered to be a counter-strike.

    Also, even if you fail in the kick to the standing leg, if you moved quickly enough towards your opponent and in the direction he is kicking, the hit you recieve is negligible.

    I do not do WTF, we do punch each other in the face in my TKD- so yes I take that into consideration.
    Last edited by Stick; 12/27/2005 5:18pm at .
  10. j416to is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/27/2005 5:18pm

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     Style: Muay Thai, Kenjutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yes, you are correct. I thought that's what I wrote, shin check first, then counter.
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