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  1. Mr. Jones is offline
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    resident sick ****

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    Posted On:
    12/23/2005 5:11am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Being a total psychopath

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Is it okay to teach children how to kill people?

    I put this in the techniques section because it has to do with killing techiques.

    My father told me one time that he took my brother out of a karate class in San Francisco Chinatown. He's not a martial artist so every martial art is karate to him. It's in Chinatown so I guess it could be wushu or something. Anyway he said he took him out of the class because the instructor was teaching my brother who was 9 or 10 at the time how to seriously hurt or kill people. I wondered about this because why bother teaching martial arts to a kid at all. Learning how to kill people seems like a natural outcome of martial arts training. Even Aikido guys are aware of how to apply techniques to end people's lives. What do you guys think did he do the right thing to take him out of the class and should kids even bother to learn martial arts at all?
  2. katsu is offline

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    in conclusion, MMA sucks.
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    Posted On:
    12/23/2005 5:37am


     Style: AIKIDO

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    my sensei mostly teaches the young ones "safer" techniques but even those can kill if done a certain way. but a technique is not a gun and does not have to be deadly or even excessive and it's GOOD for kids to learn to do them "safely"
  3. PointyShinyBurn is offline
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    Gnarly King of Half-Guard

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    Posted On:
    12/23/2005 8:47am

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     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Jones
    the instructor was teaching my brother who was 9 or 10 at the time how to seriously hurt or kill people
    What else would you expect to learn in a martial arts class? If an instructor taught my (hypothetical) child only ways to mildly annoy and tickle I'd ask for my money back.
  4. MEGA JESUS-SAMA is offline
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    **** you math class

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    Posted On:
    12/23/2005 8:48am

    supporting member
     Style: TKD, Ballet, Archery

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The youth arhcery classes accept kids as young as seven, I think. does that count?
  5. Shawarma is online now

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    12/23/2005 8:51am


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If the kids who gravely injure each other using techniques they saw on the Power Rangers or WWF had proper martial arts instruction along with a healthy dose of YOU DO NOT DO THIS MOVE FOR SHITS AND GIGGLES YOU LITTLE **** from their instructor, my guess is that there'd be more than one kid with his back broken from a WWF-submission walking around today.
  6. Phrost is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/23/2005 8:59am

    Business Class Supporting Memberstaff
     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Anyone without the mental capacity to understand the consequences of their actions shouldn't be taught things that could endanger others. This includes martial arts, firearms, and how to drive a car.

    I'll bet Scrapper has a similar point of view, or at least an interesting one, given that he teaches kids wrestling and kickboxing.
  7. Nate1481 is offline
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    Why did they never try this....

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    Posted On:
    12/23/2005 9:32am

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     Style: Jujutsu/Mixed

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Shawarma's comment
    YOU DO NOT DO THIS MOVE FOR SHITS AND GIGGLES YOU LITTLE ****
    makes sense to me, even if i might phrase it diferanly to a 6 yr old :5censored.

    My mum is a primary school (4-11) teacher and has mentioned times when a kid in the playground was 'demonstrating' a technique don't know what they had learnt and nearly hurt one of the friends as they didn't know break falls and were doing this on tarmac not mats.

    The the federation my club is part has a kids sylabus (for under 16 I think) and there a part of it that make me wince, teaching shoulder dislocations etc.

    In my opinion some techs should be left out of a junior sylabus and a regular (if no every session) about caution should be made by the coatch

    (p.s. before someone yells BS you can only get to black as a junior and i think you have to regrade as black for senior but not sure as no juniors @ my club as we're uni based)

    As i know some of you have kids it seems sensible to ask, what do you teach them & why?

    Don't have a family yet, but one of the post-training conversations that comes up occasionally is what will you teach you kids and at what age?
    You want them to be able to defend them self from a bully, but not at the risk of turning them into one.
    "This won't hurt me a bit..." - My training partner.:new_astha
  8. DCS is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/23/2005 10:02am

    Join us... or die
     Style: 柔道

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    A pro instructor pov:

    I have been in the martial arts from age four and have been teaching children from the ages of 4 through sixteen for the past 10 years, the last three which have been in JKD/Kali. Children are our number one joy in teaching and we are the only school in the area that enters tournaments under the JKD/Kali approach. (continuous sparring, children's Pankration, and weapons forms).

    First of all, the parents want their children enrolled in the martial arts for many reasons which depending on the age, primarily include, discipline, building self-esteem, and self-defense. Most, if not all martial arts schools deliver on the first two. I believe the question on this post basically concerns the last one. Regardless of that, most every school around here uses weapons in their forms and/ or strikes to the eyes and throat, heel kick to the head, and foot stomps in their katas. Be they Goju, Tae Kwon Do, Kenpo, Kung Fu, etc.

    Go to any tournament and witness some very powerful looking little dragons. If any of these "traditionally schooled" children where to use the techniques from those very same katas outside their academies they could really hurt someone. Also, from age six a tiny Judoka with just two years of training has a ball while wrestling at the play ground with his pals.If not careful he could easily slam another child with no break fall experience.

    So with all this in mind:

    1) It's the teacher that must instill "right and wrong" behavior and most importantly "what to do" if provoked into fighting. Our kids are taught to use kick boxing (Jun Fan), and basic Jiu-Jitsu (takedowns and controls), to defend themselves. Locks, chokes, HKEs, and weapons, are taught at different ages and used for demonstrations and out of energy drills only! Rule #1 is that if any child does use them they are automatically expelled from the school. This is the same rule applied to me by my Judo,Kenpo, and Wing Chun instructors many moons ago. Any "Cobra Kai" type instructor can turn any martial art into trouble for his kids and in the end himself. Teaching a modern art does not make you a threat to the child but only an up to date instructor.

    2)The very young ones take years to learn proper kick boxing technique, little less manage an energy drill. Parents of young teens are more worried about gangs and a loaded weapon at school than any martial art skill ever invented.

    3) You owe it to yourself and to them (parents and kids) to give them the tools necessary to survive an assault if one day God forbid it happens to them. The process is fun and teaches you a lot about your art, human nature, and teaching in general.

    Hope this helps. There is much to and behind the question posted but I hope you have the faith in yourselves to realize what others are teaching and perhaps the courage to teach what is your own. Forward any specific questions to me and I'll get to them as soon as time permits.

    I guess my point is that the kid who listens to Barnie songs backwards and hijacks his dad's van plastered with anti government slogans and filled with artillery to "show them all" at school is going to do that no matter what. I'm not trying to make light of the question because I believe it is a very important one but I think you should keep it in perspective. Consider that all martial arts teach hurting or inflicting pain in one form or another but its the ethics behind them that matter when teaching children. If a child is violent, he will use whatever he has at his disposal to do so. My head was cracked open at five by some seven year old and a rock. Angle one I now recall. Be it a bat, stick, knife, or spinning inverted flying whooping crane heel New Guinean emu beek kick, it does not matter. The only difference is that the last thing probably takes years to master and hopefully by then you as an instructor may have helped that child's rage.
    (Bold are mine)
  9. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    12/23/2005 10:35am

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Regardless of the age of the student, one would hope that the entire point of martial arts training is learning how to paradoxically NOT kill people.


    "Peace is our profession."
    -- U.S. Air Force Strategic Air Command motto.
  10. PEtrainer is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/23/2005 10:45am


     Style: wrestling, Bjj, fi ting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That is why the spirtual side of MA is so important. You need to lean the self restraint to not use your powers for evil, but only for good.

    Honestly people, do you know how hard it is to kill someone with your bare hands? The isolated deaths that are pointed out are such a big deal because it is so rare. This sounds like an idea for a 1979 Chuck Norris movie. a force of one with chuck and superfoot.
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