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  1. JFS USA is offline

    Converter of Virgins

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    Posted On:
    12/25/2005 9:42am

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     Style: H'ung Ga & SPM

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by xingyifa
    Do share. I'm finishing up degrees in both chem and bio and evolution would seem to be the most pragmatic explanation science can come up with.
    And your point would be what? A certain discipline puts forth its best effort and therefore that becomes the rule? I don't think so.

    We can't recreate evolution from ooze to primate, so in a sense it doesn't meet the criteria of science AS A WHOLE. However, in parts, much of it has been tested and verified. Since we can't even test intelligent design AT ALL... *shrug*
    The limits of the approach. Nothing more and nothing less. To gloss over them is dishonest.

    PM if you would like to debate this in more detail.
    Dude, there is no "debate" ... I think - feel - believe as I so desire and all others are free to do the same.

    Much as I enjoy a good exchange I am eyeball deep in alligators right now and don't see any daylight in the near future.

    If I can survive the next 12 months I have a shot ... I'll Pray over it ... you feel free to consult the good Men of science. Thus far, I've been given no hope by them at all. The BEAST
  2. xingyifa is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/25/2005 9:45am


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    Quote Originally Posted by JFS USA
    Dude, try to read with comprehension. They weren't "training" as such ... it was a bunch of guys interested in roughing it up to see what shook out of it. They were a naturally aggressive sort who weren't afraid to take a shot at something outside the box.

    If you are attempting to call into question my credibility or integrity you are pissing against the wind. I've withstood more scrutiny and requirements of "proof" than anyone on this forum.

    Things were and are exactly as I state them. Unlike the majority of peeps on this forum I actually have LIVED a rather full and interesting life. Most of you are stuck trying to fabricate something worth reading about.
    No...I read that this was a drill that you "occassionally did". Sorry if I came off as being more smartass than I meant. I was just wondering why a bunch of serious wrestlers were doing this. So, just out of curiousity, what was the majority of your PT with the army wrestling team like?
  3. xingyifa is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/25/2005 10:02am


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JFS USA
    And your point would be what? A certain discipline puts forth its best effort and therefore that becomes the rule? I don't think so.



    The limits of the approach. Nothing more and nothing less. To gloss over them is dishonest.



    Dude, there is no "debate" ... I think - feel - believe as I so desire and all others are free to do the same.

    Much as I enjoy a good exchange I am eyeball deep in alligators right now and don't see any daylight in the near future.

    If I can survive the next 12 months I have a shot ... I'll Pray over it ... you feel free to consult the good Men of science. Thus far, I've been given no hope by them at all. The BEAST
    I freely admit that there are some definite problems with our ability to test and verify the theory in its entirety. I don't mean to seem coy or "gloss" over this. Still, science can't say anything about an intelligent designer unless we can still see things being designed today...Science does not want to or have to rule out this possibility. It is simply outside the realm of speculation until there is an observable phenomenon. We can currently see some of the effects predicted by the theory of evolution and they are quantifiable. This aside from all the physiological, vestigial, and genetic patterns scientists are finding makes evolution the absolute best answer science can provide currently.
    On a side note, good luck to you with the alligators and have a merry Christmas.
  4. JFS USA is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/25/2005 10:12am

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     Style: H'ung Ga & SPM

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    Quote Originally Posted by xingyifa
    No...I read that this was a drill that you "occassionally did". Sorry if I came off as being more smartass than I meant. I was just wondering why a bunch of serious wrestlers were doing this. So, just out of curiousity, what was the majority of your PT with the army wrestling team like?
    Dude, chill ... I know you to be a decent person and was just pinging on you.

    The morning sessions were dedicated 100% to wrestling with the night sessions being mostly conditioning work. As an added bonus, Coach would "teach" the fouling aspects of wrestling to those of us who expressed an interest in such things. This was completely outside the scope of his mission and with him grappling wasn't a job ... it was his passion. He spent a good amount of time traveling to various Countries with pronounced roots in grappling and was a walking reference of all things grappling. At about 160 pounds he was pure Hell to tie into on the mat ... hurt me lots of times during the post conditioning night sessions.

    During the morning sessions, I spent a lot of time ... probably most of my time ... getting repeatedly slammed into the mat. For guys lighter than me I represented a heavily resisting practice dummy that was stronger than them. For the guys heavier than me I was a fast moving target.

    Don't get me wrong ... I was in no way, shape or form a "threat" to become a Team member by any stretch of the imagination. The Coach saw me as a useful piece of equipment and nothing more. I wouldn't make a pimple on the ass of those guys as they routinely rocked in international competition.

    My sole function was to give them something hard to handle ... something different to work against. I got owned every single time ... no exceptions ... never "won" or even came close to winning a single match. I forced them to work hard ... if they hurt or injured me it didnt' matter as I wasn't needed for comps ... I was expendable ... and that was the extent of my usefulness.
  5. JFS USA is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/25/2005 10:17am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by xingyifa
    I freely admit that there are some definite problems with our ability to test and verify the theory in its entirety. I don't mean to seem coy or "gloss" over this. Still, science can't say anything about an intelligent designer unless we can still see things being designed today...Science does not want to or have to rule out this possibility. It is simply outside the realm of speculation until there is an observable phenomenon. We can currently see some of the effects predicted by the theory of evolution and they are quantifiable. This aside from all the physiological, vestigial, and genetic patterns scientists are finding makes evolution the absolute best answer science can provide currently.
    On a side note, good luck to you with the alligators and have a merry Christmas.
    Understood and agreed. On another note, you might want to ditch the Newtonian Mechanics World View and move a bit more forward. It's been dead since 1922 but the effects still contaminate everything from experimental design to the practice of western medicine.

    The Causal Universe is dead ... shot the Human Condition further forward and faster than anything in our history ... but dead none the less.

    Season's Best to you and your Family as well.
  6. patfromlogan is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/25/2005 10:27am

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     Style: Kyokushinkai / Kajukenbo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by I aint punchy!?
    Hitting someone hard as they attempt to close is the standard 'anti-grappple' ... and it works great if you have practiced it realistically.

    The thing is there is a realistic training differential -
    1/ grapplers can practice in a realistic full contact way due to the very nature of grappling
    2/ strikers practicing to KO or badly mess up grapplers-attempting-to-close can't simulate this well enough to have as well a honed skill as grapplers. They need to practice delivering full power punches on someone actively trying to close on the them, to have as well trained skills as a grappler-attempting-to-close.
    3/ grapplers however can simply practice evading a punch as they attempt to drop someone while wearing lots of protective equipment.

    Thats not to say its impossible or that its completely one-sided.

    From a training perspective its geared towards the grapplers.

    But when the 'attempting-to-close' action is initiated by the grappler, they might be at a higher risk during the fight, at being stopped with a punch.

    Bring back the rep system.
    "Preparing mentally, the most important thing is, if you aren't doing it for the love of it, then don't do it." - Benny Urquidez
  7. Poop Loops is offline
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    OOOOOOOOOOAAARRGGHH RLY?

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    Posted On:
    12/25/2005 4:15pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Richards
    They're not 'ranges' as in relative distance variables, more like 'dimensions' - all potentially present (if you include weapons) and all others actually present if you include motion thru the human form.

    Steve.
    Then don't call it a range. Weapon factor or weapon usage is good, though. I've only ever seen range used as a measure of distance.

    I need to get my ass in a Dog Brothers school one of these days...
  8. wakinonioi is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/25/2005 10:01pm


     Style: Wrestling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JFS USA
    Don't get me wrong ... I was in no way, shape or form a "threat" to become a Team member by any stretch of the imagination. The Coach saw me as a useful piece of equipment and nothing more. I wouldn't make a pimple on the ass of those guys I got owned every single time ... no exceptions ... never "won" or even came close to winning a single match. ... I was expendable ... and that was the extent of my usefulness.

    Still, you must have made some gains in your own wrestling skills during that time.
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  9. DerAuslander is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/26/2005 12:03am

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     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by I aint punchy!?
    In terms of weapons -- range is a very important factor to bear in mind -- and tactics change at different ranges based on a given weapon's use.

    Saying that weapon ranges are pointless is stupid. If given the option I'd rather have a machete than a knife. The range advantage is huge.
    Understanding range and distancing and the tools available to you is completely necessary. No one is arguing that.

    What I am saying is that holding on to ideas such as "this is weapons range", and this is "grappling range" and this is "striking range" is just a mental concept that in the will limit you, possibly severely.

    Everyone who says that there are certain set "ranges" can't even agree on what they are or how many their are.
  10. SuperGuido is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/26/2005 10:20pm


     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by xingyifa
    Wait.
    So why was the US Army Wrestling team training to take down a guy with boxing gloves on? I mean, I did wrestle a little in high school and I'm not sure exactly how this applies to the sport of wrestling... is this something uber competitive wrestlers do?
    I'm about 2 pages late, but oh well.

    In defense of JFS, "close combat" training in the military really varies a lot. The absence of a Company Commander typically throws the concept of "military order" straight out the window.

    Non Company PT is usually pretty loose and unstructured, since most military guys are sick of company runs and coordinated grass drills. As such, training with the US Army Wrestling team probably involved pretty loose and variable sessions...rather than strict wrestling stuff.

    While I was getting hours for the MAI qual in MCMAP, "classes" usually consisted of a bunch of Marines beating on each other in inventive ways until we got bored. Sometimes we'd run through the syllabus...other times we'd have an experienced BJJ player run through lock drills...and sometimes we'd do freestyle knife drills with chalk.

    Therefore, I'm not really surprised that "forward thinking" exercises were used during JFS' time training with the US Army, and any serviceman that attended such sessions can attest to that.
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