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View Poll Results: What ever shall I do?

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  • Judo!

    38 29.01%
  • BJJ!

    62 47.33%
  • **** Off!

    31 23.66%
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  1. wakinonioi is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/05/2006 1:11pm


     Style: Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by elnyka

    I've asked the question before, and I've been told that a takedown is the same as a throw. Yet, I keep seeing posts that give the impression (at least to me) that a throw is not the same as a takedown.

    Am I interpreting this wrong? If a takedown =/= throw, then what's the difference? If they are different, what should one to do to learn takedowns (other than joining a wrestling club or something)?

    All throws are takedowns, but not all takedowns are throws.



    Hmmmm...unless you throw him and then don't cover, I suppose.
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  2. UpaLumpa is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/05/2006 1:16pm

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     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The connotation of takedown usually includes throwing techniques like singles, doubles, high crotches, ankle picks etc. Throws would be seionage (sp) etc.
    Though techniques from both categories are in both, takedowns usually often means wrestling and throwing usually means judo.

    Another case of connotation not strictly following dennotation.

    And since some of you honed in on this:
    Given its use in the other grappling arts, BJJ invented the guard.
    The meaning seems pretty clear. While other grappling arts may have had all the components for guard work, bjj put them together more cohesively than any prior styles.
  3. Cassius is online now
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    Posted On:
    1/05/2006 1:22pm

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     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by elnyka
    But standup work, nil.
    Once again, anecdotal. Here's my anecdote: At my school, we'll often have entire classes devoted to takedowns. We generally spend around a month before tournaments learning and drilling takedowns for at least half the class, if not the entire class (depending on the day of the week). We also start standing up for nearly every roll beginning a couple months before a tourney. Even when tournaments are not around the corner, we still spend a lot of time on takedowns (This is not true for rank beginners. At my school, beginners tend to not be taught takedowns until several moons have passed). On the other hand, a couple of the instructors at my school have strong backgrounds in Judo and we've got collegiate level wrestlers to help us with greco/freestyle takedowns.

    I will say this, however: Students from my school generally get the takedowns in bjj/grappling tournaments, regardless of what happens afterward, at least at the three tourneys I've been to. I can think of at least two other schools in the area that concentrate heavily on takedowns as well, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by elnyka
    Judo doesn't allow them in competitions. In BJJ, there are ankle locks, but if I'm not mistaken, they are not allowed in competitions under certain belts, right?
    Honestly, this depends on the competition. I've been in a division (back when I was a white belt) where everything besides knee bars and heel hooks is allowed (including neck cranks and wrist locks), divisions where only straight ankle locks were allowed and neck cranks and wristlocks were specifically NOT allowed, and I've seen grappling tourneys where pretty much every sub was allowed (though I tend to agree that heel hooks should be reserved for blue or higher).

    It really depends on who is making the rules, to be honest. There is a lot of variance, at least around here. The big national and international BJJ tourneys are more tightly regulated, but even those will probably loosen up soon in the face of the success of the ADCC and similar tourney rulesets.

    FOCUS: If the starter of this thread wants an MMA focus, he'd probably be better off doing BJJ, as it is more likely to be MMA-oriented. Judo will carry over nicely to MMA sparring if the starter wants to get a solid base in takedowns and limited submissions before he moves on to MMA, though. Neither is really a bad choice, to be honest. This is assuming the various clubs are all of equal quality in his area, of course.
  4. Cassius is online now
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    Posted On:
    1/05/2006 1:30pm

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     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by dakotajudo
    Yeah, I was thinking about that. If you're trying to guage competitive ability, judo as a different ranking system - the A-E level system.

    I'm curious how BJJ tournaments would be ranked, using this system.
    A lot would probably be down at the D-E level, most likely.

    I guess the Mundials and Abu Dhabi (if you're counting no-gi sub grappling tourneys) would have to be A or A+, with the pan-ams and similar tourneys maybe at the B-C level.

    Then again, Judo has several-decade headstart for organized international competition (Along with the Kodokan as a sanctioning body, which hopefully keeps greedy assholes like certain members of the BJJ community from ruining the quality of competitions. If it doesn't, then I feel your pain). I'd love to see more major BJJ and no-gi sub grappling tournaments come into existence.
  5. UpaLumpa is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/05/2006 1:37pm

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     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by dakotajudo
    I'm curious how BJJ tournaments would be ranked, using this system.
    Brian Cimmins is trying to institute a similar type ranking system. His system has some fatal flaws though.
  6. PirateJon is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/05/2006 1:47pm

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     Style: MT/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Garbanzo Bean
    FOCUS: If the starter of this thread wants an MMA focus, he'd probably be better off doing BJJ, as it is more likely to be MMA-oriented. Judo will carry over nicely to MMA sparring if the starter wants to get a solid base in takedowns and limited submissions before he moves on to MMA, though. Neither is really a bad choice, to be honest. This is assuming the various clubs are all of equal quality in his area, of course.

    Correct - I do want a more MMA experiance to go with my boxing (two great tastes) but until last weekend I had no idea there was such a thing in my area. Hell, the only listing for non-cardio non-bullshit kickboxing in CHS had a place that doesn't exist with a phone number from pre-area code change which happened like 10 years ago. But there's hope since I'm stalking the only fighter I've seen on Sherdog from my area. I got a phone number from an old boss and left a message so... I hope that's the same guy. :glasses9:

    HOW DO FIND HIS GYM? :XXbunny:
    http://www.sherdog.com/fightfinder/f...ighterid=12136
  7. wakinonioi is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/05/2006 1:50pm


     Style: Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by UpaLumpa
    The connotation of takedown usually includes throwing techniques like singles, doubles, high crotches, ankle picks etc. ..
    I certainly wouldn't think of those as "throwing techniques".
    Last edited by wakinonioi; 1/05/2006 1:53pm at .
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  8. FictionPimp is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/05/2006 2:00pm


     Style: BJJ/Judo/Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've had a little over 2 months training in judo. I started because I really wanted to get back into competition now that I have the time and money to seriously train. I have been training judo 2 to 3 times a week and aikido 3 times a week. The judo school I attend is a usja school that has a focus on competition. The number of adults has been reduced over the last few months and he only has 5 to 6 adults that train mostly middle belts and 2 black belts (that I've seen). We do ground work 1 night a week tipically (not counting randori which is done every night) and our main focus is pins and escapes, but besides being shown chokes and armbars I see very few people actually using them in the class (however our instructor really pushes the use of chokes). Standup seems to be their main focus overall with the students there who compete.

    I wanted to get a little more indepth on the ground and last night I attended a bjj class. I got wrecked. Both physically and technically. I managed to keep working thought the whole class, but I was physically almost unable to move by the time it was over. Their warmups were heavy and wore me out (I'm not used to doing more then 50 pushups and crunches in an hour). I was able to grasp the techniques demostrated without any issue, but when it came time to roll I had no idea what to do. I really thank the guys that night for not putting the hurt on me. I found myself going for pins and then just stuck, not knowing how to move to a submission. The advanced white belts passed my guard like it wasn't even there. A bluebelt actually yawned while rolling with me. I really learned how little I know about ground fighting in general (Which is to be expected). However I do feel I learned a lot from the advice my partners gave me and had an overall good first night (at least I think I didn't make an ass of myself). I am definatly going to find a way to stick bjj training into my schedual, I find it physically exhusting, and mentally challenging. I'm also interested into checking out their MT/MMA training that they have there as well once I get a handle on bjj.

    My only problem is that I'm going to have to cut training somewhere to fit it in. And it looks like I'm going to have to cut my aikido class. My judo class is super cheap (100 bucks for 3 months) and on off nights of bjj. Where my aikido classes are on the same nights as bjj and 10.00 a class. So I have choices to make. I can't really afford all 3, plus I feel you have to train at least 3 nights a week to make any progress in any art. However its a tough call to make because I really like my aikido training, and I have many friends at both the judo and aikido school. Its not a choice I can make in a day, its going to take some time to think it though. But I do know that the bjj school I went to is way better then all the schools I've been to in my area that deal with grappling and I would be a fool to pass them up if I want to gear myself up to compete. Plus more mat time is more mat time. So if you can afford to do both and have the time, why not do both. I'm thinking thats why i'm going to do, at least in the short term.
  9. Cassius is online now
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    Posted On:
    1/05/2006 2:17pm

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     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by FictionPimp
    My only problem is that I'm going to have to cut training somewhere to fit it in. And it looks like I'm going to have to cut my aikido class. My judo class is super cheap (100 bucks for 3 months) and on off nights of bjj. Where my aikido classes are on the same nights as bjj and 10.00 a class.
    Yesssssssssss . . . Compleeeeete your journey to the darrrrkkk sssiide . . . hissssssssssss.
  10. Hannibal is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/05/2006 5:40pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kyokushin and Judo.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Fiction Pimp.

    Your doing the right thing. Your on a winner, there dude. Don't waste any more time with Aikido. **** it off. You don't need it. Keep Judo and take up BJJ aswell and that's pretty much all you'll ever need.
    Hannibal: The sworn enemy of dishonest politicians, source of entertainment on Bullshido and newly appointed Office Linebacker. Terry Tait ain't got **** on me !!!!
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