Well chin down with one arm defending your neck does offer some protection and your hand is only needed briefly.
Originally Posted by Dancer
I was told once by a brown belt that one simple way to escape rear mount was to protect your neck with one hand while removing one of your opponents hooks with the other. Similar principle here.
But honestly this isnt something that comes up much, if at all in practice. Most people learn right away not to cross the feet.
Interestingly, I find that this variation of the RNC is also effective at setting up the more usual BJJ ideal, as the palm to palm grip gives you a fairly large amount of leverage in getting the choking arm positioned. If I don't get one, I'll get the other.
Originally Posted by Knecht Ruprecht
Food for thought.
More flexible people, myself included, can set up the ankle lock hands-free. This kind of baiting your partner is potentially very dangerous. Better to either work your submission setups from back mount, or just leave it and transition to mount.
Originally Posted by Dancer
Hell I though you guys have killed Judo vs BJJ threads long time ago, but it seems to be alive and kicking.
Lets agree to disagree, Judo and BJJ have diferent goals, different ways to do the same ****, they have to worry about different things and obviously don't get respect from each other.
let's move on with our lives
Last edited by El Neko; 12/23/2005 9:38am at .
Concessions like these should not be allowed when one solution is clearly better than the other.
Originally Posted by Neko687
I award this debate to Dreadnought.
Crossing ankles is not a major judo technique - in fact, more mainstream judo references (and most judoka) teach the counter to crossed ankles. Kawaishi calls it hiza-tori-garami; Mifune calls in ashi-kudaki.
Originally Posted by Lucky Seven
To even start this thread shows to me some ignorance of judo. KOSEN judo is really just a subset of mainstream judo, primarily a competition style adopted by a few high-schools (the KOSEN schools - the name is an acronym).
The strategy of dropping to the ground was developed as a way for inexperienced (i.e. freshmen) judoka to force a draw against more experienced competitors. For that reason, while there's some useful ideas in KOSEN, it's not what I consider the epitome of judo grappling.
It's high school judo.
To better understand judo's grappling game, try "The Canon of Judo", Kawaishi's "My Method of Judo" or Feldenkrais' "Higher Judo, Ground Work". I also hear Oda's book is pretty good, and Vital Judo, but I don't have those, so I can't say. And don't forget Kudo.
As for the original image, whether tori has crossed his ankles or not is a non-issue - it should be obvious that uke is in no position to attempt an ankle lock. It may that crossed-ankles is a better counter to uke's attempted escape, but I can't say just now without a partner to test that idea, so I won't defend that position.
For all those that think having a good RNC will save your ankles. I've seen good sub wrestlers crank the ankle lock with their legs while defending the RNC. Its a little gimmicky but not less gimmicky than crossing your ankles in the first place. In other words, DON'T CROSS YOUR ANKLES.
Does anyone has a picture of a ankle lock done on someone that crossed his ankles when doing a RNC (or in a similar situation)???? I'm trying to visualize that ****. Or, if you can point me to a reference (website,book,etc), that would be great, too.
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The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
Are you talking about hooking the crossed ankles with the crook of your knee? I managed to do that once, but it was against another grappling noob.
Originally Posted by NSLightsOut
Originally Posted by Canuckyokushin
I'm talking about figure-4ing/triangling my legs over my opponent's crossed ankles
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