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  1. MONGO is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/22/2005 3:37pm

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     Style: na

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The thing is, up and down are not so important in newaza. The terms they are using were coined by BJJ and I am sure that no one here named it as such.

    I actually thought that this thread was about the applicability of the technique shown, not terms used. Aeso thought the technique was flawed (I think), or he was trying to inflame my Kano/Kimura/Inokuma/Yamashita nut riding.
  2. Phrost is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/22/2005 3:45pm

    Business Class Supporting Memberstaff
     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MaverickZ
    crossing your feet while taking someone's back is bad. is there a hidden meaning i'm missing from that picture? or is that it?

    i was told and shown why my first month in jiujitsu.
    Look, either you're too dumb to get that Aesopian was pointing out a flaw in Judo's grappling game, or you're intentionally trolling. Either case will earn you a few days probation if you chose to continue shitting up the thread.

    Make sense now?
  3. Moleculo is offline
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    nuthin' ta f*ck with

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    Posted On:
    12/22/2005 3:47pm

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     Style: MT/SUB GRAPPLING

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you want to cross your legs, first control the upper body and secure a fig.4 with your legs then fight for the choke or argue whether or not the definition of "mount" should be changed for special people.
  4. BSDaemon is offline
    BSDaemon's Avatar

    Being Sublime Daily

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    Posted On:
    12/22/2005 4:20pm

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     Style: BJJ/MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    EDIT #6:
    Q: HOW DO MODERATE???
    A: NOT LIKE THIS
    Quote Originally Posted by MaverickZ
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    Last edited by BSDaemon; 12/22/2005 6:13pm at .
  5. JohnnyCache is offline
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    All Out of Bubblegum

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    Posted On:
    12/22/2005 4:42pm

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by elnyka
    Ok, now I'm confused. I was under the impression that you cross the ankles. Why is it a bad habit? Doesn't that help stay on your opponent's back if he tries to roll over?????

    To answer you directly: Crossing the ankles works GREAT on total dopes - you crank the hold in a little harder and a little faster.

    But against anybody with half a brain, they can put any number of horrible things into play by simply levering your top leg's achillies tendon against your bottom leg's shin, which hurts like hell and will often break the choke. If it doesn't, it can turn into a pretty gnarly ankle lock about half a second later. It's basically just a corner people cut in comps where you can't do ankle locks. It's also a mistake new grapplers make instinctively.
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
  6. Shuma-Gorath is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    12/22/2005 4:59pm

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     Style: BJJ - Homeland Security

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Your average one-month BJJ white belt prays to hit the crossed-ankle lock whenever they get backmounted. So much so, in fact, that I've had a few new guys try to slap in on me while my hooks were completely parallel and I have to tap them with body triangles as punishment.

    Crossing your ankles even against total beginners is a bad idea. Hell, back in the day I manually crossed someone's feet just to land that lock.
  7. MONGO is offline

    Middleweight

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    Posted On:
    12/22/2005 5:12pm

    supporting member
     Style: na

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnought
    Your average one-month BJJ white belt prays to hit the crossed-ankle lock whenever they get backmounted. So much so, in fact, that I've had a few new guys try to slap in on me while my hooks were completely parallel and I have to tap them with body triangles as punishment.

    Crossing your ankles even against total beginners is a bad idea. Hell, back in the day I manually crossed someone's feet just to land that lock.
    The way it is done in Judo is the RNC or Hakada Jime will already be sunk on and then the hips are locked so there is leverage for a the guy on back to arch into the choke. It is difficult to do anything to the ankles if the person has leverage and the choke is already applied.

    This set up may be inferior to the BJJ one but it is not as simple as just apply an ankle lock. The entire situation is the result in different theory, Bjj's position before sub, and Judo's sub as position is gained or submission first then position.
  8. Aesopian is offline

    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    12/22/2005 5:17pm

    Business Class Supporting Member
     Aesopian.com 

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't undestand how judoka can do hakada jime straight across the throat with a palm-to-palm grip when they are supposed to have an art based on "maximum effect with minimum effort".
  9. El Neko is offline
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    "Yes Neko, please keep telling me more about your manly collection of Star Wars audiobooks"

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    Posted On:
    12/22/2005 5:19pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    you totally hate judo
  10. JohnnyS is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/22/2005 5:20pm

    supporting member
     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The problem with trying to get the submission before the position - unless you're a freak like Marcelo Garcia - is that the guy can escape while you're trying to get the sub and you end up losing a great position.
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