Kosen Judo Rear Mount

**MONGO** · Posted On: 12/22/2005 2:37pm

The thing is, up and down are not so important in newaza. The terms they are using were coined by BJJ and I am sure that no one here named it as such.

I actually thought that this thread was about the applicability of the technique shown, not terms used. Aeso thought the technique was flawed (I think), or he was trying to inflame my Kano/Kimura/Inokuma/Yamashita nut riding.

**Phrost** · Posted On: 12/22/2005 2:45pm

Originally Posted by MaverickZ

crossing your feet while taking someone's back is bad. is there a hidden meaning i'm missing from that picture? or is that it?

i was told and shown why my first month in jiujitsu.

Look, either you're too dumb to get that Aesopian was pointing out a flaw in Judo's grappling game, or you're intentionally trolling. Either case will earn you a few days probation if you chose to continue shitting up the thread.

Make sense now?

**Moleculo** · Posted On: 12/22/2005 2:47pm

If you want to cross your legs, first control the upper body and secure a fig.4 with your legs then fight for the choke or argue whether or not the definition of "mount" should be changed for special people.

**BSDaemon** · Posted On: 12/22/2005 3:20pm

EDIT #6:
Q: HOW DO MODERATE???
A: NOT LIKE THIS

Originally Posted by MaverickZ

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***JohnnyCache*** · Posted On: 12/22/2005 3:42pm

Originally Posted by elnyka

Ok, now I'm confused. I was under the impression that you cross the ankles. Why is it a bad habit? Doesn't that help stay on your opponent's back if he tries to roll over?????

To answer you directly: Crossing the ankles works GREAT on total dopes - you crank the hold in a little harder and a little faster.

But against anybody with half a brain, they can put any number of horrible things into play by simply levering your top leg's achillies tendon against your bottom leg's shin, which hurts like hell and will often break the choke. If it doesn't, it can turn into a pretty gnarly ankle lock about half a second later. It's basically just a corner people cut in comps where you can't do ankle locks. It's also a mistake new grapplers make instinctively.

**Shuma-Gorath** · Posted On: 12/22/2005 3:59pm

Your average one-month BJJ white belt prays to hit the crossed-ankle lock whenever they get backmounted. So much so, in fact, that I've had a few new guys try to slap in on me while my hooks were completely parallel and I have to tap them with body triangles as punishment.

Crossing your ankles even against total beginners is a bad idea. Hell, back in the day I manually crossed someone's feet just to land that lock.

**MONGO** · Posted On: 12/22/2005 4:12pm

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

Your average one-month BJJ white belt prays to hit the crossed-ankle lock whenever they get backmounted. So much so, in fact, that I've had a few new guys try to slap in on me while my hooks were completely parallel and I have to tap them with body triangles as punishment.

Crossing your ankles even against total beginners is a bad idea. Hell, back in the day I manually crossed someone's feet just to land that lock.

The way it is done in Judo is the RNC or Hakada Jime will already be sunk on and then the hips are locked so there is leverage for a the guy on back to arch into the choke. It is difficult to do anything to the ankles if the person has leverage and the choke is already applied.

This set up may be inferior to the BJJ one but it is not as simple as just apply an ankle lock. The entire situation is the result in different theory, Bjj's position before sub, and Judo's sub as position is gained or submission first then position.

**Aesopian** · Posted On: 12/22/2005 4:17pm

I don't undestand how judoka can do hakada jime straight across the throat with a palm-to-palm grip when they are supposed to have an art based on "maximum effect with minimum effort".

**El Neko** · Posted On: 12/22/2005 4:19pm

you totally hate judo

**JohnnyS** · Posted On: 12/22/2005 4:20pm

The problem with trying to get the submission before the position - unless you're a freak like Marcelo Garcia - is that the guy can escape while you're trying to get the sub and you end up losing a great position.