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  1. Poop Loops is offline
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    OOOOOOOOOOAAARRGGHH RLY?

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    Posted On:
    12/23/2005 2:31am

    supporting member
     Style: In Transition

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Oh. I've always heard them referred to as "Beauty Queens". I do a variation of those on a chair for maximum cracking.
  2. Judah Maccabee is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/24/2005 8:58pm

    supporting memberhall of fameBullshido Newbie
     Style: Krav / (Kick)Boxing / BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I had another session today. He did three more adjustments, including one to my lower spine. He also repeated his diagnostic tests, and certain circumstances where I was unable to resist previously were able to resist, indicating that nerve/muscular function was enhanced to a specific area. For example, when I went in there the 1st time, he told me to squeeze my elbow into my ribs (kind of like a boxer's stance deal), then resist while he pulled my elbow out from vertical to horizontal.

    Visit 1 - it came out easily.

    Visit 2 - it was much more resistant.

    The doctor wants to see me about 10x in the next 4 weeks for chiropractic and massage work to rehab the specific areas of my body.

    Ever since I've been going, there are muscles in my lower back that are getting fatigued just by walking around or sitting down. I correctly hypothesized that he was enabling muscles that should have been working there in the first place (but hadn't been), and since they weren't working before, they're getting a workout.

    The neck pain is drastically less than when I went in there, and the range of motion has greatly increased. Every session results in an improvement to my body.
  3. Thaiboxerken is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/24/2005 9:43pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sounds like you found your placebo. Congrats.
  4. Judah Maccabee is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/24/2005 10:18pm

    supporting memberhall of fameBullshido Newbie
     Style: Krav / (Kick)Boxing / BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Thaiboxerken
    Sounds like you found your placebo. Congrats.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

    There was substantial benefit in pain relief for 9 and 12 treatments compared with 3 visits. At 4 weeks, the advantage was 13.8 ( P = .135) for 3 visits per week and 18.7 (P = .041) for 4 visits per week. At the 12-week follow-up, the advantage was 19.4 (P = .035) for 3 visits per week and 18.1 (P = .048) for 4 visits per week. CONCLUSION: A large clinical trial on the relationship between pain relief and the number of chiropractic treatments is feasible. Findings give preliminary support for the benefit of larger doses, 9 to 12 treatments, of chiropractic care for the treatment of cervicogenic headache.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

    RESULTS: Pain relief and changes in functional ability were greatest among patients whose initial pain or disability level was moderate or severe. No significant improvement was found among those whose initial level of pain or disability was mild. Pain relief and improved functional ability was greatest among those with an acute condition and those who saw no one other than the chiropractor during treatment. In addition, pain relief was highest among men, those who perceived themselves to be in good or excellent health and those who had completed treatment in 6 wk. Patients positively endorsed all items on the satisfaction questionnaire, indicating a high level of satisfaction with the care they received. Patients were most satisfied with access to chiropractic care and least satisfied with financial aspects. Improvement in pain and in back and neck disability were significantly related to general satisfaction. CONCLUSION: Based on these results, it seems that patients suffering from back and/or neck complaints experience chiropractic care as an effective means of resolving or ameliorating pain and functional impairments, thus reinforcing previous results showing the benefits of chiropractic treatment for back and neck pain.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

    RESULTS: Twenty eligible subjects were included (12 males, 8 females) with an average age of 30.4 (2.8) years. Twelve of the subjects were not students, with 3 of these having no prior experience with chiropractic treatment; 8 were students. Of the total sample (N = 19), 8 (42.1%) indicated that the procedure was a "real adjustment"; of the 12 nonstudents, 8 (58.3%) indicated similarly. None of the procedures in the final sample resulted in a cavitation, and none of the subjects registered the procedure as painful. None of the measures for ranges of motion or tenderness showed clinically important changes. CONCLUSIONS: The sham cervical manipulation studied here appears to approximate the necessary features of a placebo maneuver in that it is perceived by a majority of nonstudent neck pain subjects to be a real manipulation, although it does not produce any important change in cervical status. The small sample size of nonstudent participants precludes a strong recommendation for this procedure at this time.



    This final study indicates that even when the participants perceived a manipulation, there was no concurrent benefit to their range of motion or pain relief. Placebo effect would have shown benefits had there been no actual manipulation, but benefit.





    I have had increased benefits and relief from symptoms that did not occur from a number of rehabilitative exercises I did on my own, including ice, theraband resistance exercises, heat, stretching, etc.

    In 90 minutes of chiropractice over two days, my ROM in my neck has doubled from its injured state and the pain has been made to subside.

    Real definite treatment, real definite benefits. You won't even accept the possibility that it can be a legitimate, beneficial practice at all. Not even on an anecdotal level (see thread title).
  5. Thaiboxerken is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/24/2005 10:50pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hey, whatever floats your boat. If he starts mentioning subluxations and pinched nerves.. run, don't walk.
  6. Poop Loops is offline
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    OOOOOOOOOOAAARRGGHH RLY?

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    Posted On:
    12/25/2005 3:01am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ken, what it is exactly that you do as your profession? All I see you ever do is say "ALTERNATIVE? BULLSHIT!!" on every thread. But, AFAIK, your experience in the scientific fields ranges all the way up to Scientific America, maybe even Discover magazine. Part of science is discovering new things. Western medicine sucks at doing anything with the back and spine, so we might as well give something else a try.

    It's like The Wastrel said, quoting someone else: a definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. You need to try something else if what you're doing now doesn't work. Yes, even voodoo if all else fails. What else have you got to lose?

    I used to have a crooked back. I went to a chiroprater. It's not crooked. So it worked for me.

    Obviously, if he says he can cure your impotence with back cracking, you need to run.
  7. Quikfeet509 is offline

    Acupuncturist / Anesthesia Student

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    Posted On:
    12/25/2005 4:14pm


     Style: Mostly weights now...

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Thaiboxerken
    Sounds like you found your placebo. Congrats.


    A good way to tell is if the results dimish with time, or if Steve's condition gets better with continued treatment. The placebo effect dimishes over time so if he gets better week after week, it probably is not placebo.


    :clock:
  8. Thaiboxerken is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/25/2005 4:16pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Abominable Snowman

    I used to have a crooked back. I went to a chiroprater. It's not crooked. So it worked for me.
    Anecdotal stories mean little to me.
  9. JohnnyCache is offline
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    All Out of Bubblegum

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    Posted On:
    12/25/2005 5:08pm

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Thaiboxerken
    Anecdotal stories mean little to me.

    You know, that is only acceptable to a point, right? Scientiffic, statistical evidence IS ancedotal evidence - with the bias and causation examined, and presented in bulk.
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
  10. Jekyll is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/27/2005 10:39am

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     Style: San shou(tai chi) +judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Are there any review papers compairing the effectiveness of massage or yoga vs. chiropractors?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stickx
    It must suck for legit practitioners of tai chi like Cullion to see their art get all watered down into exercise for seniors.
    Those who esteme qi have no strength. ~ Exposition of Insights into the Thirteen Postures Attrib: Wu Yuxiang founder of Wu style tai chi.
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