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  1. Doctor X is offline
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    ARGUMENTUM AD LATINUM DICTIONAIRUM

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    Feb 2006
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    4,383

    Posted On:
    7/05/2006 4:58am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Argumenta ad Rem

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DerAuslander108
    None in English.

    Just wait for mine to be published.
    I do not think he was asking for a book done in finger paint. . . .

    :ninjadanc

    --J.D.
  2. Matt Bernius is offline

    Middleweight

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    Rochester, NY
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    Posted On:
    7/05/2006 8:33am

    supporting member
     Style: Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DerAuslander108
    The Hwarang did not practice Dangsoodo, or even some ancient forerunner of Danngsoodo. They practiced archery, swordfighting, and in some cases Taegyun and Kwonbup. And they were not warriors. They were Buddhist Boy Scouts.
    Basically, their training was in most cases a finishing school for civil servants.

    The Mooyae Dobo Tongji is a military training compendium, containing an overview of combat techniques used by the Korean military of the time. It contains forms and instructions for 23 weapons, some of Chinese decent, others of Korean, and a few Japanese.

    There is only one chapter dealing with hand to hand combat, and it has nothing to do with Dangsoodo.

    It's Kwonbup, Korean kung fu.

    There is one unarmed form illustrated. It is not a Dangsoodo form. Rather it is a adaptation of the Kijikwon, a Chinese long fist form related to Taizu Long Fist.

    Yes, I know this form.
    Interesting. You'd explained that before, but it hadn't made it through my thick skull. I know that Hwang Kee worked to "reverse engineer" the empty hand form. But I didn't know that a link had been found to the original Chinese form. How did you manage that? I seem to remember reading somewhere that the Mooyae Dobo Tongji written (or its creation overseen) by a Chinese general. Was that the jumping off point?

    - Matt
    Last edited by Matt Bernius; 7/05/2006 8:37am at .
    Student of Wan Yi Chuan Kung Fu,
    Kali, & what ever works
    Renaissance Martial Arts
    Rochester, NY
  3. Matt Bernius is offline

    Middleweight

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    Posted On:
    7/05/2006 10:32am

    supporting member
     Style: Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by emboesso
    DerAuslander, you may have read something similar to this. I don't recall where I read it. Apparently there was a period of "enlightment" in Korea sometime in the 19th century, wherein the practice of martial arts became frowned upon socially. That, followed up with the Japanese occupation beginning in 1910, virtually caused the extinction of native Korean MAs. Not entirely, but significantly.
    That's pretty much the story. Korea embraces Confucianism (note that even today there is a big push in Korea to market the nation as a model of Confucianism -- it's one of the reasons why thier cultural exports (soap operas in particular) are becoming so popular in China) and a social rejection of the martial arts occurs. It should be noted that at a number of points in its history, Korea gutted its military for a wide variety of reasons. The end result is a stigmatization of the martial class (and that's both civilian and military MAists). Then the Japanese invasion/annexation.

    Note also that the postwar rise of TKD and the popularization/re-appropriation of the Hwa Rang legends can be read as an attempt to assist the military in reasserting their position in Korean culture. This movement can also then be connected to parrellel events like bringing the Olypics to Soeul and making TKD an olympic sport.

    - Matt
    Student of Wan Yi Chuan Kung Fu,
    Kali, & what ever works
    Renaissance Martial Arts
    Rochester, NY
  4. DerAuslander is offline
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    Valiant Monk of Booze & War

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    Baltimore, MD
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    18,451

    Posted On:
    7/05/2006 10:50am

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Bernius
    I know that Hwang Kee worked to "reverse engineer" the empty hand form.
    Hwasun, Hwang Ki's form, is, like all of Soobakdo, a culmination of everything he learned. Hwasun is considered the epitomy of Soobakdo. It is the form from MDT, mixed with his CMA studies and JMA studies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Bernius
    But I didn't know that a link had been found to the original Chinese form.
    Check out Warrior-Scholar.com/wforum

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Bernius
    How did you manage that? I seem to remember reading somewhere that the Mooyae Dobo Tongji written (or its creation overseen) by a Chinese general.
    The original work, the Moobiji, was actually an adaptation of a Chinese military manual written by a General Qi. A friend of mine found an instruction manual of a decendent of General Qi's long fist form in a Chinatown bookstore years ago. It is literally, step by step, the form in the MDT, only with better instruction. Unfortunately, we have been unable to find any school of classical long fist teaching this form. The closest we have been able to get is Taizhu. Regardless, I have been working with my Shippalgi master on reconstructing it.
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