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  1. Aesopian is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/20/2005 12:12am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Reverse Omoplata

    The purposes for this thread are 1) showing people what the reverse omoplata is and how it's not as crazy as it seems, and 2) seeing who else has been doing this move and what tips they have to share.

    This move seems to have a reputation as some mythological shoulder exploding move that only black belts can perform, but I've talked to a few guys who use it, and I personally use it all the time, so I know it's not as crazy as people tend to make it out to be.

    So, what's a reverse omoplata? No, it's not a counter to the omoplata (which I've had people ask). Go here and find out:

    http://www.tampabjj.com/2005/11/17/reverse-omoplata/

    Some people call it an "inverted" omoplata � maybe that makes more sense to you.

    Looking at just the finishing position, you can see that it's "reverse" or "backwards" to the omoplata in a couple ways. A normal omoplata ends with them facedown, and you looking facing towards their head. A reverse omoplata ends with them face up, and you looking towards their feet.

    You can also think of it as the backwards version of the americana with the legs from kezure kesa gatame (seen here). The ending is just a kimura with the legs from reverse kezure kesa gatame. Thinking about it this way seems to simplify the move for a lot of people, since it makes the end goal easier to understand, even if all the leg crossing and rolling and junk still seems wacky.

    Since I'm asking for people to share their reverse omoplata advice, here's my offering. It'll be familiar to anyone who's seen Garcia 2 (the gi one) or SoFlo 1 since they both show similar moves, but not with the reverse omoplata:

    When doing the double under pass on someone (hugging under both legs and stacking), they'll often stiff arm you or grab your sleeve to block you. Grab their sleeve (or wrist if no-gi) and pull it to you as you step over their arm and sit on it, trapping it in the crook of your front leg (the one furthest past their guard). Now, rather than passing to side control, lift their butt and flip them all the way over, dumping them on all fours. Their arm should be between your legs, crossed back in the trigger position for the reverse omoplata, like this:



    From here, start the roll and continue the move as shown in the first link. I've had a lot of success with this setup.

    So does anyone else have some reverse omoplata tips to share, or is this really as obscure as it seems to have been?
  2. Aesopian is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/20/2005 1:08am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Saulo Ribeiro orangubanged Jamie Levine this way at a Pro Am. Check it out:



    Saulo with the crucifix and the arm crossed back.



    Rolling.



    Gnarly finish.



    Jamie doing the Bridge of Infinite Pain.

    I have a friend who knew the reverse omoplata, but was afraid to do it after seeing Saulo oblitertang Jamie's arm with it. It was only after I showed him the way on TampaBJJ.com that he saw how you can control each step in the move and you don't have to just ballisitcally somersault shoulders off.
  3. Aesopian is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/20/2005 8:55am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Here's what Kid Peligro wrote about Saulo and Jamie's fight:
    WEF promoter Jamie Levine then faced five-time world Brazilian jiu-jitsu champion and current ADCC world champion, Saulo Ribeiro. Levine had actually asked for this match-up and had spent a month training hard for this moment. He went so far as to leave his home to live with the Rival Team in order to maintain top focus, shape and intensity. Before the match Levine stated, "I'm going at Ribeiro 110 percent - like no one has ever gone at him before." However, reality quickly set in when the match started as Levine quickly learned that Ribeiro didn't accumulate all his titles by chance. In a masterful sequence, Ribeiro surprised and confused Levine with a series of submission attacks never before seen, going from a crucifix, to an omoplata shoulder-lock, to a reverse omoplata with an opposite leg shoulder-lock. The exchange was so fast that Levine couldn't keep up and ended up submitting with a scream of pain. Afterwards, the shell-shocked Levine said, "I thought he was going to get my right arm, when all of a sudden I felt the pain my left are. I couldn't move so I had to yell. I'm mad! Not at Saulo - but at myself because I wanted to stay on the mat longer." Levine is a warrior but he learned first-hand that Ribeiro is head and shoulders above most grapplers in the world.
    You can find this fight in Marc Laimon's Pro Am remix tapes.

    I am the foremost e-authority on reverse omoplata multimedia.
  4. Aesopian is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/20/2005 8:58am

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    I went through hundreds of photos this weekend and posted them online for my school. What I found funny is how many reverse omoplatas I found Eduardo doing at random. Check it out, they get older and older:







    Each of these photos is at least a year apart.

    I created a special gallery dedicated to them:

    Reverse omoplatas on Gracie Barra Tampa
  5. Aesopian is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/20/2005 9:02am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I was watching the 3 Dimensions of Shaolin last week, and he shows a no-gi reverse omoplata on the second disc. He uses a setup similar to the one I gave in the first post (pinning the arm while passing guard and flipping them over all fours), but he doesn't step over the arm to trap it first--he just pins it with his knee and gets the crucifix (which is the start of the reverse omoplata) after the flip.

    I do this sometimes, and it was the original way I did this move, but I found I was having too much trouble getting their arm into the right place for the crucifix. If you pin with the knee and have trouble getting the crucifix you can always switch to taking the back (like Marcelo shows in his second set) or just start playing a harness game.

    It can also be hard to step over the arm to trap it (like in my setup) so both ways have pros and cons, and you should just go with what you can get.
  6. Aesopian is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/20/2005 9:02am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    One of the main concerns I hear from people when they see the reverse omoplata is that it seems "too loose" or they think anyone would be able to just pull their arm out or that it takes too long to setup.

    So, let's really look at each step in the move, and the typical resistance you'll get from someone trying to thrash and muscle their way out:

    You have side ride, he can buck and try to roll you but if you know how to maintain the postion (control the wrist, chest on his back, base out), you won't lose it.

    When you go to trap his arm, your knee drives into his arm and your heel digs to catch it. Your legs are stronger than his one arm, and with your superior position, you have a good chance of getting it.

    Once you get his arm trapped, he might grab his hands together and try to take you down, which you can counter simply by posting with your free arm.

    If he keeps holding his hands together, you can drop your hips and straighten your leg to break his grip. Legs are stronger than arms.

    He can try to stop his arm from being crossed back, but, again, legs are stronger than arms.

    Once his arm is back, he may fight to uncross it, but like it says on TampaBJJ.com, your leg can always bend to trap it more than he can straighten to remove it.

    During all the previous steps you still had side ride with wrist control and your chest on his back. Even if you lost some base without your posting leg out, you have his arm trapped and the worst that usually happens if he rolls is that you go to the traditional crucifix (on back, face up).

    Now comes the start of the roll. This is the part that freaks most people out, since you think you're giving up all your control, and you think he MUST be able to just pull out or something. But really try this out, and you'll find that most of these problems never really happen when rolling. If you just keep your leg tight to his arm, he's got no real options. It's also such a transitional step that you'll be holding his knee in just a second.

    I've gone with guys who outweight me by 60+ lbs, and had nothing more than my leg trapping their arm (not even grabbing the knee yet) and while they try to pull out and turn away and uncross their arm, I just rode around because I never let the tension go on their arm.

    Once you've grabbed the knee, all the worry over the roll is over. He can thrash and posture and whatever, but you have several ways to roll him. This is covered in detail on the technique page.

    After the roll, his arm is still trapped. You have control of his knee, so he cannot roll out. You keep your hips close to his shoulder so he cannot pull out. Putting your hand (or elbow) in his far armpit and blocking his chest with your chest seals the deal.

    This looks move looks like it needs an unmoving partner because it takes a lot of photos to show each step in detail, but you can still do it on as lively and resisting an opponent as you want, if you have trained each step well. It can be a very dynamic battle to get this, where you're riding and rolling all over the place as they try to buck you and escape.

    Sometimes, I'll take it slow and really secure each position as I go. Each step done one at a time. Each position held for a bit to maintain maximum control.

    Other times I'll want a fast finish and just run through the steps. A lot of the steps turn into one movement as you speed up. Trapping the arm goes straight into crossing it back. The roll starts just as the arm is crossed.

    Like I've said for the very start, you've just got to have faith at first and drill it and try it out, and then you'll see how easy this move really is.
  7. Aesopian is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/20/2005 9:07am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Fun Fact:

    You can counter the star (backroll) sweep with a reverse omoplata. Here's the sweep:

    http://bjj.org/techniques/thetechniq...zoCounterPass/

    The standing guy can roll forward for the reverse omoplata at about this point:



    The More Your Know.
  8. Aesopian is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/20/2005 9:09am

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    Behond Nino Schembri's flying reverse omoplata on Margarida.



    I've rounded up all of Kid Peligro's dirt on this move from his reporting on the ADCC News site:
    Kid Peligro Jiu Jitsu News . . .

    The most anticipated fight of the night of course was Antonio "Nino" Schembri x Fernando "Margarida" Pontes. As we had reported Nino did some incredible submission attempt right at the start of the fight and completely dominated the match. We interviewed Margarida after the match but there isn't much to report on that. Margarida was obviously tremendously disappointed and could hardly talk. We want to tell Margarida that he should keep his head up and that there will be better days for him ahead. You have just come from a tremendous campaign in the Pan Ams and you will have more great days in your future.

    ...

    KP- Everyone was really excited about this match and the crowd on the internet was pretty evenly divided as to who was going to win. So what happened in the match?

    Nino- I got him in a Standing Reverse Shoulder lock (reverse omoplata), and like I said before, I thought if I insisted on it I could have submitted him, but after a while I decided to get the points from the sweep. From there I passed his guard three times and almost mounted him. I swept him one more time. I controlled the entire match and he didn't score any points on me. This time I was perfect, I am really happy right now.
    From another piece of news:
    We have a short follow up on the Friendship Cup Tournament. We had a conversation today with Fernando "Margarida" Pontes and while he was disappointed with his performance he also commented that Nino has had a Black Belt for 7 years and that he is new to the ranks. He was also upset about the reported score, he said it was inflated. We had originally reported the score 13 x 0 based on observations by experts at ringside and the account of the fight by Nino. That proved to be incorrect, the official final score was 7 x 0 apparently two of the guard passes were not deemed completed and didn't get scored by the referee. We apologize for the mistake.

    We also spoke with Nino again later in the day and he was still beaming from the result. We wanted to know about "The Move" that was causing such furor. , "The standing reverse shoulder lock". I asked Tetel about the move earlier and he said : "Please don't ask, I can't describe it. And no one else at the arena that I spoke with could either". When we asked Nino to describe and explain the move he said:" Kid, it is simple, you start from the crucifix and then you move the arm to the other side and then you dive, Huh, well it is kind of hard to explain, it is easier for me to do it." Thanks Nino, no problem. We just love to know that such things exist and are still being created .

    I don't know about you guys, but I am going to try to figure out and practice "the standing reverse shoulder lock" this weekend and get it down . . . On second thought, my neck just started to heal from previous trauma and I don't think my spine was meant to spin and twist. I will just have to wait for the video and be content to watch Nino do it . . .

    Now go "practice the move",

    Kid Peligro
  9. Aesopian is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/20/2005 9:09am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    One thing I've been playing around with is getting the reverse omoplata off of the crucifix once you've rolled to your back and crossing their arm from there. I've got it a couple times, but the issue becomes that as you are moving from behind them to on top of them, you can't really stop them from escaping their shoulder and pulling their arm out. Eduardo and I are trying to come up with a solution, but nothing yet...
  10. supercrap is offline
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    Founder/GrandSensei of Joint British / Papua New Guinean Non-contact Lawn Bowls Jiu Jitsu Committee

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    Posted On:
    12/20/2005 9:10am


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    When you get a higher belt in BJJ Aesopian, I wonder if your posts will get longer or shorter?

    Thanks for all the info though.
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