223859 Bullies, 3874 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 1 to 5 of 5
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. PirateJon is offline
    PirateJon's Avatar

    and good morning to you too

    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    DC
    Posts
    3,240

    Posted On:
    12/19/2005 5:16pm

    supporting member
     Style: MT/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    OTC painkillers bad for building muscle

    Turns out aspirin, acetaminophen, and ibuprofen (COX inhibitors) are bad for muscle gains. I did not know this and had been taking aspirin and **** all the time before or after workouts. Dammit.



    The short version:
    "Hormone signal -> phospholipase 2 active-> release of AA from membrane-> COX conversion of AA to prostoglandins(this is where aspirin stops the pathway) ->signal for protein synthesis-> protein synthesis"

    The poster recommended no aspirin within 5 hours of a workout.

    From:
    http://www.fortifiediron.com/invisio...showtopic=1790

    Study:
    http://www.cnr.berkeley.edu/hellerst...e_AJP_2002.pdf
    You can't make people smarter. You can expose them to information, but your responsibility stops there.
  2. Poop Loops is offline
    Poop Loops's Avatar

    OOOOOOOOOOAAARRGGHH RLY?

    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Americastan
    Posts
    10,025

    Posted On:
    12/19/2005 5:34pm

    supporting member
     Style: In Transition

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That sucks. I had 2 fillings and a temp crown done last Tuesday and my teeth STILL hurt, so I'm taking lots of Ibuprofent. (yes, I went to the dentist again and he did some "touch up" stuff to see if it will help)

    Oh well, I doubt it effects it that much.
  3. dakotajudo is offline
    dakotajudo's Avatar

    Judo Instructor

    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    South Dakota
    Posts
    633

    Posted On:
    12/19/2005 7:22pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PirateJon
    Turns out aspirin, acetaminophen, and ibuprofen (COX inhibitors) are bad for muscle gains. I did not know this and had been taking aspirin and **** all the time before or after workouts. Dammit.



    The short version:
    "Hormone signal -> phospholipase 2 active-> release of AA from membrane-> COX conversion of AA to prostoglandins(this is where aspirin stops the pathway) ->signal for protein synthesis-> protein synthesis"

    The poster recommended no aspirin within 5 hours of a workout.

    From:
    http://www.fortifiediron.com/invisio...showtopic=1790

    Study:
    http://www.cnr.berkeley.edu/hellerst...e_AJP_2002.pdf
    It's this kind of thing that makes me think some sort of Journal Club subforum would be useful here.

    It's not wise to make any kind of recommendations based on a single report. There's usually some important background information, information that the authors assume that the readers understand.

    Remember, these are articles written for other professionals in a, sometimes, very narrow field.

    So, sometimes, university departments in the sciences have informal "Journal Clubs". They meet weekly; individual members present the results of select papers. The presenters usually go into some detail of the background research - follow the citations, if you will, or see if other papers have cited the study in question.

    So, to help clarify, let me provide some of what I understand as the background - it's related to an area I spent some time, surveying the literature.

    The authors of this paper seem to be studying a specific physiological response to excercise, one known as delayed-onset muscle soreness, or DOMS.

    DOMS is associated with unfamiliar, eccentric contractions. An eccentric contraction is one where the muscle is lengthening as it contracts (a concentric is one where the muscle shortens - it's the concentric contraction we tend to associated with function). The cycle of an eccentric contraction followed by a concentric contraction is the cornerstone of plyometrics.

    Another way to understand eccentric - DOMS is studied by having people run downhill - the quads act as (eccentric) brakes.

    Obviously, weight lifting involves an eccentric component (i.e. lowering the bar to your chest during bench press). But as you become adapted to the exercise, DOMS goes away - it's only associated with an unfamiliar eccentric contraction.

    Part of DOMS research has focused on the role of NSAIDS - could pain relievers be used, prophylatically, to prevent DOMS?

    That does not appear to be the case - the symptoms of DOMS do not appear to be triggered by prostaglandins. So you're going to be sore, if you undertake a new training regime.

    On the other hand, pain relievers do relieve the symptoms of DOMS, once they occur. That's one thing I haven't mentioned - one key feature of DOMS is that the symptoms start to appear 24-72 hours after the exercise - delayed onset.

    In this study, pain killers were given 3X a day (at the maximum recommended dosage), starting on the day of exercise. Protein synthesis was measured, if I read correctly, 5 hours after the exercise bout.

    There wasn't so much a decrease in protein synthesis, as a smaller increase.

    Not sure how important that is - the early response in DOMS is very differently, cellularly, than the chronic responses to exercise. The signal responsible for muscle growth is mediated by a different pathway, separate from prostaglandins.

    From my reading, the paper is more important in understanding short-term responses to DOMS and the role of NSAIDs, than understanding how NSAIDs affect long-term muscle adaptations to resistance training.

    One thing the authors do not go into much detail on, one intriguing result, is the differences in plasma creatine kinase, with different treatments, in Table 2.

    Creatine kinase is an enzyme that is only found in muscle cells - finding it in blood indicates muscle cell damage.

    The mean values for CK appear to be much higher for the acetominophen group. However, they authors state the results are not statistically significant - I'd suspect because the large variances within treatment groups.

    Conversely, the CK values ibuprofen group are considerable smaller than the placebo group, hinting that ibuprogen protects against muscle cell damage - however, as the authors state, these results are not statstically significant.

    However, they do cite that other studies suggest that ibuprofen does indeed lower CK levels after exercise - so maybe ibuprofen does have a protective effect (and this protection may be related to blunting of short term protein synthesis - my opinion - proteins required to tear down muscle structure themselve require synthesis).

    So, in short, take the single study cited with a grain of salt.

    And if you're going to take a pain-reliever, use ibuprofen.
  4. Nid is offline

    Light Heavyweight

    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    3,530

    Posted On:
    12/20/2005 6:48am

    supporting member
     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Never quite understood the issue with DOMS. By that I mean, I never took, nor even considered taking pain killers for it. To me it's not even entirely unpleasant.

    But yeah, as Mr. Dakota noted, it seems to have most to do with unfamiliarity...not neccesarily intensity, duration, or any of that. In fact, I'm damn sure I've had DOMS from unfamiliar "contrentric" crap as well.
  5. elipson is offline
    elipson's Avatar

    Ad Hominem rocks.

    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    BC, Canada
    Posts
    3,476

    Posted On:
    12/20/2005 6:31pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, mma

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That explains a lot. When I was going 3 days on and one day off for weight lifting, I usually wasn't very tired the next day. Now, in school and all, I go for one hard session and I hurt for a day or two. Out of practice.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.