Students of Sifu Brown...

[Genghis Bob]

I am a student of Sifu Brown’s. I’ve practiced at the School of Chinese Martial Arts for a little over three times as long as Tony has, so maybe I can offer a little perspective. I’ll say right out front that Sifu Brown certainly does not need defending from me, or anyone else; all I’m trying to do is clear the air a little.

. . . Wow. It took you over two years of training for that, TONeeeeey? At $150 a month? Plus uniform costs? Plus weapon costs? Plus testing costs?

I expect Tony was excited to share what he had learned with you, not realizing you were only looking to ridicule him. Anyway, we do pay tuition, and we pay for our uniforms and weapons – I would be surprised if anyone expected that stuff to be free. We do not pay to test, though.

. . . He told me that "Sifu Brown" had never given someone their black-sash because nobody was as tough as he was. ? He said that "Sifu Brown" trained in China under a secret Shaolin Monk master, but that nobody in the school knew who that was because it wasn't important because "Sifu Brown" invented his own kung-fu style.

I’ve never heard Sifu Brown claim to be “tougher” than anyone else – that’s certainly not his style. His tests become progressively more challenging as the student advances, in part because the art is so inclusive, encompassing movement, strikes and kicks, chin na, chokes and throws, and grappling.

Sifu Brown’s teachers are certainly not “secret”. Like most practitioners of long standing, he has had many teachers, the names of whom he’s shared with us.

He has never claimed to have invented his own “style” of Kung Fu. Perhaps what your source was trying to convey was the concept that effective Martial Arts comprises learning and mastering the most effective, efficient ways of moving, striking etc. Anyway, the philosophy imbued in the art is “Yuchia” (I may be misspelling), which translates as “hard/soft”.

. . . Here's his "master's" page: http://www.bushinjuku.com/arts/bush...wushu/wushu.htm

Actually, no – that page has nothing to do with Sifu Brown, or any of his teachers.

. . . *Every year the students purchase and learn a new weapon. Yeah, nice expensive Kwandao you got there. Kids normally get TMNT weapons too.

Weapons classes are offered each summer to advanced students. We pay for our weapons, and over the course of the summer learn the form. Participation in Weapons classes is not mandatory. At the end, we have our weapons to continue practicing the form. Not sure why the disdain here.

. . . *"Sifu Brown" apparently earned his kung-fu mastery in only a couple of months after flying to China... because he is so good.

Sifu Brown has been a practicing Martial Artist for over 32 years. He has never made the claim that he became a master in just three months – either your source misspoke, or you misheard. After thirty-some-odd years, he is, as you would expect, very good at what he does. He tells his students that there is nothing “special” about his level of mastery of the art – it’s the logical result of many years of dedicated effort.

. . . *The school is the largest and one of the most profitable in the U.S.... because he is so good.

Yeah, pretty much. It has one of the largest practicing adult populations in the US. I can’t speak to the business aspects, and neither can your source.

. . . *Oh, you need to buy his teaching CDs too! WTF?

There is no requirement to buy the CD’s. They are compilations of talks given during his weekly Meditation classes, transcribed, edited to give those who are interested more in-depth understanding of the philosophy behind Martial Arts in general, and in particular Sifu Brown’s ideas. You can buy them, or not; listen to them, or not.

. . . *"Sifu Brown" does lots of lectures at different places if you want to know how to run a profitable dojo (dojo? Kung fu?)

He is in demand as a speaker on motivation, self-awareness and the like. He also travels to other Dojos to show them how to attract and retain adult students.

About nomenclature; we asked him about that once, during the Q&A session that follows every class. His answer is that the term “Dojo”, as the more widely known term for a Martial Arts school, is more accessible to the population in general.

. . . *"Sifu Brown" beat Palsy and dyslexia by taking karate when he was only eight... which is why he is so bad ass. You never see Palsy fighting in the UFC, do you.

Sifu Brown was born with various physical challenges, as are a lot of people. He has beaten them – or at least fought them to a draw – through hard work and application of fierce will. He has never claimed that the practice of Martial Arts will “cure” any condition, but that through the practice of Martial Arts you can strengthen the body and the mind sufficiently to not be ruled by your afflictions.

. . . *"Sifu Brown" doesn't need to tell people that most of his training was in karate, because, ya know, his school is called "School if Chinese Martial Arts", even though they use lots of Japanese weapons, and because he teaches kung-fu katas.

Sifu Brown has Black Belts in four arts. He has never made a secret of his past – he draws on his experiences in all arts during post-practice Q&A, and on his CD’s.

. . . *"Sifu Brown" also teaches meditation and Chinese spirituality, because his martial art is spiritual and deep.... because he is so good... and he read about it in a book.

He teaches Meditation because it is the most – perhaps the only – effective way to discipline the mind. He teaches that meditation is the foundation of all true martial arts – Chinese, Japanese, Okinawan, Korean, whatever. Without discipline of the mind, it’s just exercise.

. . . *During each belt test you have to write an essay about how spiritual and deep your training is.

Actually, you have to write a paper demonstrating that your practice is more than just physical exercise. Some papers are very “spiritual”, others are straightforward and pragmatic, and quite a few are very funny. What is common about them is that the students who write them are required to really examine their own motivations for practicing, and how their practice is effecting their lives.

. . . *His website and tapes are overflowing with rhetoric declaring just how great "Sifu Brown" is.

Not really. It may seem excessively self-promotional to you, but I don’t see it. That’s okay – we don’t have to agree.

Since you live in the Detroit area, I wonder why you don’t drop in on the School of Chinese Martial Arts and see what it’s all about. The only thing you have to lose is an hour of your time.

Well, with all the martial artists on this site, someone must have heard of lessons in mindfulness", since it is taught all over the world after all. Anyone?

Google “Lessons in Mindfulness”, and you’ll get some hits. It was a program he developed in 2003-2004 to instruct other schools in how to bring the deeper, more philosophical aspects of martial arts back into their curricula. It was very well received in many schools.

[Dagon Akujin]

Bob, can you clear up the thing that has been bothering me the most then? What are Brown's belts in and who did he get his training from? It seems incredibly odd to me that those are not listed directly on the site. Nowhere are they mentioned. Also, how long did he actively practice with those teachers? Did he simply fly to India for 2 months and "earn" a "black belt"? (I ask that only because I've heard that it's possible.) Sure, he's been in karate for 32 years. What about the rest?

http://www.ohiomartialarts.com/content/sensei.html

The above site says that Sifu Brown "teaches under the authority of thirty-six generation Shoalin Monk, Master Ue." You say that Ue is not one of his teachers. I find that odd. I find it very odd that Brown's website does not expressly state what he teaches, other than Wu Shu for those under 16. Notice also that the above website says that Brown teachers Shaolin under Ue, even though Ue is listed as a teacher of Wu Shu? Ue trains MOVIE STARS!

That's my main gripe, but also: So, are you confirming that Sifu Brown has never awarded a black-sash? Hasn't he been training people for over 10 years now? Is most of the training he offers based in karate? If so, why does he call his school "chinese"? Why is so much of what I see from him about how to create a school that makes lots of money, as opposed to a school that is either traditional or effective (even though he calls his school traditional)? I've found "Yuchia" on the net in a bunch of places, and it only surfaces when connected to Sifu Brown. Is this the "style" he didn't invent? Or does he not teach a "style"?

And yes, I realize that TONeeeeey would not be the best representative of any school, but he brings up his training everytime I see him talk to someone, and he hits on lots of girls who find him rather disgusting. Seriously! Tell the boy to stop!

And come on, the line about Palsy not being in the UFC was funny! :bom:

Dagon

[Genghis Bob]

Bob, can you clear up the thing that has been bothering me the most then? What are Brown's belts in and who did he get his training from? It seems incredibly odd to me that those are not listed directly on the site. Nowhere are they mentioned. Also, how long did he actively practice with those teachers? Did he simply fly to India for 2 months and "earn" a "black belt"? (I ask that only because I've heard that it's possible.)

Truth to tell, I don’t pay much attention to what he's practiced in the past, or who his teachers were. I know that Issin Ryu was one, but the lineage of his teachers doesn’t really interest me. I am interested in the efficacy of what he’s teaching me now, the caliber of his senior students, and the esteem with which he is regarded by his peers.

Sure, he's been in karate for 32 years. What about the rest?

He’s been a Martial Artist for 32 years, give or take. He’s taught Kung Fu for at least 13 of those years, and I presume he was a student of Kung Fu for some years before that. I’m not sure where you got the idea that he’d been practicing Karate his entire career, and then magically became a Kung Fu Master overnight.

The above site says that Sifu Brown "teaches under the authority of thirty-six generation Shoalin Monk, Master Ue." You say that Ue is not one of his teachers. I find that odd . . . Notice also that the above website says that Brown teachers Shaolin under Ue, even though Ue is listed as a teacher of Wu Shu? Ue trains MOVIE STARS!

I said in my first post that the site you found is not that of Sifu Brown’s master. Your posting of the URL is the first time I’ve seen that particular site. The fellow in the site’s picture sure doesn’t look anything like the man in the picture Sifu Brown has in his office. A reasonable assumption is that there’s more than one Master Ue (Yu?) in the world, and I’d be very surprised to learn that Sifu Brown’s master has a website. From what I have heard, he’s not exactly the self-promoting type.

So, are you confirming that Sifu Brown has never awarded a black-sash? Hasn't he been training people for over 10 years now?

Yep – he has not awarded a Black Sash yet. It takes a long time. The folks who practice under Sifu Brown are, for the most part, not focused so much on rank. Those who are in a hurry to get a black sash tend to move on.

Is most of the training he offers based in karate?

Um . . . no. I don’t know why you keep asserting that this is so. He teaches Kung Fu and Tai Chi.

Why is so much of what I see from him about how to create a school that makes lots of money, as opposed to a school that is either traditional or effective (even though he calls his school traditional)?

I don’t know what it is you see from him, but his focus when he speaks with his students, and when he hosts visiting Martial Artists, is how to attract and retain serious adult students. Obviously, a school that attracts and retains adult students will make money, and you need to make money to stay in business. But that comes as a consequence of offering real, effective and meaningful training.

There are good Martial Artists, and there are good teachers. Some guys are one or the other, but it’s rare to find someone who’s exceptional at both. From my admittedly limited experience, and from observing the regard with which he’s held by other Martial Artists, I think Sifu Brown is both. Your opinion may differ, but the best way to validate what you think you know is by direct experience.

[PO9]

Did you say Detroit?

Have you met the finest martial arts instructor Detroit has to offer?

[Grashnak]

He’s been a Martial Artist for 32 years, give or take. He’s taught Kung Fu for at least 13 of those years, and I presume he was a student of Kung Fu for some years before that.

Yep – he has not awarded a Black Sash yet. It takes a long time. The folks who practice under Sifu Brown are, for the most part, not focused so much on rank. Those who are in a hurry to get a black sash tend to move on.

I see.... 13 years does seem to be a long time, and I can understand why people might move on after a dozen or so years of study....

I don’t know what it is you see from him, but his focus when he speaks with his students, and when he hosts visiting Martial Artists, is how to attract and retain serious adult students.

You know, the kind who can spend 13 years in practice without achieving a black sash.

Obviously, a school that attracts and retains adult students will make money, and you need to make money to stay in business. But that comes as a consequence of offering real, effective and meaningful training.

I dunno.... how effective is your training if you can't raise someone to black sash level in 13 years....

There are good Martial Artists, and there are good teachers. Some guys are one or the other, but it’s rare to find someone who’s exceptional at both.

Well, define your terms. What makes him an exceptional martial artist? Apparently he has no tournament championships or other vailidations to his name. What makes him an exceptional teacher? The fact that none of his students are good enough to rate a black sash after more than a decade of study? Please enlighten us.


:jerkit2yf

[Itai]

I have visited Sifu Brown's CHINESE school a couple of times.

The most striking thing to me is that when you walk in to the school (complete with koi pond) you are standing infront of a wall that boldy displays framed photographs of the teacher's "martial influences"... they apparently include Gichin Funakoshi, Kanken Toyama (both Karate), Ueshiba (Aikido), Kano (Judo), and a picture of Sifu brown wearing a white belt seated in seiza next to a Japanese Aikido Yudansha. Kindo of strange for a guy claiming to teach "Kung fu and Tai chi" to be so deeply rooted in Japanese MA.

My understanding is that Sifu Brown has said in the past that he trained in something he called "Uchia", which he said is an Okinawan discipline based on Chinese martial arts.... ahem, I think that definition is suspiciously similar to another art's... karate.

Anyone who trains with secret Shaolin monks is full of ****. And I say that after actually having trained with Shaolin Monks in secret.

[kungfujew]

Ha ha! An Aikidoka defending a Kung Fu nutball, which is being attacked by a Wing Chun guy!!

The trifecta is in place!!! Send in the Ape-man-enhanced-Jew-borgs, victory is at hand!!!

[Dagon Akujin]

:suicide: Okay, I move that we declare Bullshido on Sifu Brown and his "Chinese School of Martial Arts" in full. To start, a recap of the events:

*Dagon meets some idiot students of Sifu Brown's and writes his post about it here.

*Fred says, "Huh, my Aikido sensei thinks he's a nice-enough guy. Don't jump to conclusions."

*A bunch of other people make random and pointless posts, in the spirit of these hallowed forums.

*Fred has a hard time reaching any conclusions after asking a bunch of questions to people who know Sifu Brown.

*Then Bob, a 6-year student of Sifu Brown's, gets on and tells us everything we can learn about his teacher: meaning nothing. He also says that everyone knows who Brown's teachers were. He also says that the one person another student listed as Brown's teacher was, in fact, not Brown's teacher. He also says that everyone knows what Brown's black-belts are in.

*Dagon gets excited. He asked a couple of easy questions, like, "Hey, who were Brown's teachers and what are his belts in?"

*Bob then says that he doesn't know or care who Brown's teachers were or what his belts are in. ?!? He doesn't have any clue how long Brown studied. Bob confirms that Brown has never awarded a black-sash to anyone, and Dagon suspects this is because nobody would know what the black-sash would actually mean since Sifu Brown does not actually teach anything. Bob also states that even though Sifu Brown does mainly karate, he teaches kung-fu, even though there is no evidence that he's ever studied it. Confusion abounds! Hilarity ensues!

*Bob then offers the worst defense of Sifu Brown possible: he says that because Brown's school is very profitable and successful because it offers "real, effective and meaningful training". From the experience of many on these boards, "real", "effective", and "meaningful" schools do not keep large numbers of profitable students. That's what McDojo's specialize in. And oh, Sifu Brown has a whole curriculum based on it making your school into one profitable McDojo.

*Itai then offers some more insight, such as how Sifu Brown is full of ****.

Anyway, I'm flying a Bullshido flag over Sifu Brown's "Chinese School of Martial Arts" until further notice. Also, I've written up a little article at Yahoo on the link to the school. Feel free to rate the article (as well as the others) right here: Click Me To View or Write Articles!!!


Dagon :blob8:

[Dagon Akujin]

?!? Yahoo deleted my review! I was up to 4 "positive" ratings on it too. Grrrrr.... Apparently someone complained that it was too negative or something. :new_blueg

Oh crap. Pout, they won't let me write another one here! :P

Dagon... loves being a dick. :thefinger

[Southpaw]

Welcome to Bullshido Genghis Bob.



I don't think we have seen any evidence of Bullshido yet.

We here at Bullshido like to **** on instructors for giving black belts away...and in this case we are shitting on an instructor for taking too long to award a black belt??? It doesn't make fucking sense. What is the magic time that we will allow a black belt to be awarded?

If the school is not making crazy claims about its effectivness, the people who attend the school are not being deceived, and people aren't being herded through the belt system like cattle...what is the problem?

Dagon...you live in Detroit...if you are man enough to call Bullshido on the school...go down there and tell them...don't be such an internet tough guy. Go down and check them out...and report back to us.