Students of Sifu Brown...

**WhenTKDStrikes!** · Posted On: 7/24/2007 12:30am

Originally Posted by clutch30

No he is not a liar or a fraud. (thought I would slide this comment in here)

Also, please note the proper spelling of "fraud"

thanks

Ya I made a typo. I guess the investigation is going to go on forever until someone goes to his school and questions him and sees what is up. Otherwise peoplewill just say "He sounds like a fake" and his students will say "Yeah I remmeber him he was crazy" or they will say "No he is not fake he is a great teacher!" and this thread will go on forever and ever like that.

**Somebody** · Posted On: 7/24/2007 1:20am

Originally Posted by WhenTKDStrikes!

Ya I made a typo. I guess the investigation is going to go on forever until someone goes to his school and questions him and sees what is up. Otherwise peoplewill just say "He sounds like a fake" and his students will say "Yeah I remmeber him he was crazy" or they will say "No he is not fake he is a great teacher!" and this thread will go on forever and ever like that.

if you lie about one thing you will lie about others. Take that for what it's worth.

**clutch30** · Posted On: 7/24/2007 1:35am

This thread will pretty much go forever it seems. I wish more people would come check out the school. We will probably get new training partners once the investigators sign up! YAY!

**mi_man_us** · Posted On: 7/24/2007 7:54am

He is not a liar? It is interesting how people say this will go on forever until someone goes there and see what's up. I cannot recall how many times I have said that I have been there...was there for 7 years. I practiced, I participated in seminars, in retreats, I taught classes. I did his T'ai Chi and Kung-Fu, I learned all of the weapons he taught, and here is what I can say:

1. There is no Dr. Woo Chin Lee who introduced him to movement, blocking and striking at the same time, etc. He does not exist.
2. He is the only one who teaches his art because he made it up. His ONLY kung-fu teacher says that what he teaches is not Yue Chia (the real art).
3. He changed the spelling of what he teaches so it is only 1 LETTER from the original to make it seem legitimate.
4. The "Yuchia" people never kicked him out of their organization for wanting to teach. How could they when he is the organization?
5. He never practiced with Tada Sensei at the Hombu Dojo...a farce
6. The students did not "offer as a gift" the remodel of the dojo. He planned it before he left for Asia...right down to the drawings. When people asked to be reimbursed, he said "this is what students do for their teacher."
7. Minzie did not teach him the weapons at Shaolin temple scowling at him until he got it perfectly. There is a DVD of the fighting monks who showed him the forms and he watches the DVD's to remember them to teach them.
8. He does not meditate like he says...he cannot, his body is in too bad of shape.
9. Ask him when he learned Fu Ja Pai. It never fits into his stories.
10. Ask him who taught him T'ai Chi. He says that his KF teacher only knew the first loop and he had to seek out a teacher for the rest. A lie...his KF teacher taught him the entire form, but he was not interested in learning in depth. What he teaches is not T'ai Chi...it is T'ai Chi like, but it is not T'ai Chi.
11. Ask him where the empty hand forms come from. He will tell you the principles are thousands of years old...maybe, but he made them up and often forgets them when he has to demonstrate them. That is why he will have someone else demonstrate the form and he will comment on it.
12. He says he has no black sashes (he claims to want to test a certain person this year, but we will see), but that is not true. He did promote someone to black, but later took the rank aay because the curriculum was not complete. Is that not his fault and not the students?
13. Ask around the place, Clutch, what the story was about a certain staff member who "moved to Florida" and then find out the truth. LIES, LIES, LIES.
14. Ask him if he or Jerri ever threatened any former teachers, former students, etc. See what he says.

I think I will stop here. The whole thing is that, if he lies about 1 thing, what else does he lie about? For me, what is most important, is the question of moral rights and wrongs. Is it not wrong to be in an environment that perpetuates lies? Even if you do not repeat them, which you probably but not knowingly, would you not want to leave that environment?

I mean, some things are right, and some are wrong. If your kids were wiith someone who told lies, hurt people, etc., would you not say "You cannot play with Bobby anymore!"

What about you?

**clutch30** · Posted On: 7/24/2007 8:27am

Mi_man_us I believe you are sincere and passionate about this. I have never heard any of the stories you bring up. He hasn't told me any of those stories. I have never heard any secret monk stories or any moving instructor stories or any stories about who taught him tai chi. I can only go off of what he has been like with me and he has never told those stories in my presence. He has taught class with a lack of ego and sense of humor for the 13 months I have been there and I have enjoyed the dojo a great deal. He never teaches me any fluffy techniques and practice is always good and hard and focused. Perhaps you had a different experience and I am not trying to negate or detract from it. I am simply saying my experience is not the same as yours. Best wishes to you.

Mike Davis

**chingythingy** · Posted On: 7/24/2007 10:55am

Originally Posted by clutch30

He never teaches me any fluffy techniques...

How do you know what are fluffy techniques and what are not fluffy techniques until you pressure test them against a fighter who has a reasonable amount of skill?

Take your hard-core techniques down to a local MMA gym and do a sparring session with known fighters. Better yet do that and then invite one of the people to come spar at your school. See what the outcome is.

Then you'll really see what's fluff and what's stuff.

**goofus lee** · Posted On: 7/24/2007 1:02pm

Hey Mi Man Us,

I don't know if we know each other, we may have met. I've been with the school for about four years now. These are serious accusations that you are making. I suppose they would carry more weight if I knew who you are. I must say that Mr. Shoennher's( please pardon the name butchery) departure has always bugged me. My first thought was of possible bad blood, though I couldn't imagine it coming from him. The guy lived for the school. Are you referring to Sifu Thomas F. Smith when mentioning Sifu Brown's first kung fu teacher? The folks over at Infinite Paths Martial Arts also claim lineage from him. They also teach the "Partners not Opponents" doctrine.

I tend not to see Sifu Brown very often on account of my work schedule. For now, I would have to agree with Clutch30.

Dave

**clutch30** · Posted On: 7/24/2007 3:08pm

Take your hard-core techniques down to a local MMA gym and do a sparring session with known fighters. Better yet do that and then invite one of the people to come spar at your school. See what the outcome is.

I know what is and isn't because this is not the first style I have trained in or the first people I have sparred with. Like I said in earlier posts we are learning good basics. I wasn't aware that I needed an "mma guy" to tell me whether or not a front punch is fluffy.

**chingythingy** · Posted On: 7/25/2007 2:07am

Originally Posted by clutch30

I know what is and isn't because this is not the first style I have trained in or the first people I have sparred with. Like I said in earlier posts we are learning good basics. I wasn't aware that I needed an "mma guy" to tell me whether or not a front punch is fluffy.

Good. Now you're aware. You could substitute a ranked boxer, kickboxer, or muy thai practitioner in for the "mma guy" interchangeably to tell you whether or not your front punch is fluffy or not. You getting knocked down = fluffy.

Just not some dude who made up his own kung fu system.

It sounds like you already paid a year in advance and are grasping at straws to justify it.

**clutch30** · Posted On: 7/25/2007 2:15am

I haven't paid anything in advance. I don't need to justify it to myself. I enjoy my practice. I pay every month like everybody else does. I have been training for a year with this school now. Getting knocked down would tell me if my footwork/blocking is fluffy not if my front punch is fluffy. It sounds like you are just talking out of your buttocks and grasping at straws to justify it.... kisses
Mike