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  1. manofaiki is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    6/03/2007 2:01am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So basically, the guy teaches his students not to care one bit where he learned his art, or who he learned it from, or for how long he learned it from them?

    Can Martial Arts be totally divorced from the issue of character? If you are paying me money to teach you an art, and in the process of teaching you I lie to you about how I learned what I am teaching you, am I an honorable person?

    If I have no honor because I deceive people about my background, can I really create honor in others and teach them to live honorably?

    "I get benefit from this even though my Sensei is full of **** and that's all I care about." seems like a poor avenue of defense.

    Any relationship begun on the basis of deception, especially one where money is changing hands in regard to the reception of knowledge and/or training in an art, is an unhealthy relationship.

    If Sifu Brown is indeed lying about his background to his new students, it would not disprove that the deceived students never receive anything of value from him as a result of training under him.

    That's not the point.

    The point would be why Sifu Brown feels a need to mislead people, and do so habitually over a number of years. He could very well be teaching valuable things to people. But the fact that he feels compelled to initiate relationships with new students on the basis of falsehoods raises all kinds of questions about character.

    Building character, honor, respect, and trustworthyness is one of the benefits of martial training. A person who makes the practice of deception a regular part of their interaction with their students is faking it. No matter what else of value the students might learn, the fact that their teacher wants respect and acclaim from them based on false claims doesn't change the fact that an essential foundational point of their relationship is bogus.

    Most understand instinctively that a liar can't teach people to respect the truth.

    A man without honor can't guide others into living honorably.

    When you lie to someone you show them disrespect because you want something from them that you are sure they will not give you if they knew the truth. It is a form of fraud.

    This is why it's important to know who your teacher's teachers were, and if his claims are true.

    To simply say, "Hey, if he lied to me so what?" misses the point.
  2. Genghis Bob is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/03/2007 2:48pm


     Style: Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by manofaiki
    . . . To simply say, "Hey, if he lied to me so what?" misses the point.
    All good points, and we're 100% in agreement.

    But who says he lied to me? Blowthewhistle/Cleartheair, who twice posted unsupported allegations and then almost immediately editted them out of existence? A bunch of guys on the internet who surmise what they can based on the posts of a bunch of other guys on the internet?

    Basically, what you've heard from JustJoe and from me is that we're satisfied with Sifu Brown's skills and with his teaching. We are neither of us babes in the woods; we'd know bad teaching and bad practice if it was foisted on us. Neither are we weak-willed sycophants; most of Sifu Brown's students are strong-minded enough to apply our own judgement to what we're told. Frankly, we judge our practice at the School of Chinese Martial Arts based on the results we get, which in the main are very, very good.

    Based on all that, I'm convinced that Sifu Brown has had a solid grounding in whatever arts he tells us he has a solid grounding in. I've seen the results of his experience, felt it upside my head at times (I'm one of the ones he feels free to pound away on, because he knows I can take it). Most importantly, I've learned from it, so I'm very satisfied with it. Knowing that Sensei Joe Hurtsellers, Hanshi Robert Bowles, Shihan Gene Dunn and Master Sonny Kim are satisfied with his credentials and his skills helps validate this feeling, but my assessment of Sifu Brown is not dependent on them.

    This thread has gone on for quite a while, with nothing really substantive coming out of it. It started with Dagon Akujin making fun of some poor starstruck kid for his own amusement, and shame on him for doing so. You've got JustJoe and me, active participatiing students with some experience under Sifu Brown; one or two obviously disgruntled ex-students; and a whole lot of conjecture. Pick whom you'd like to believe, and then ask yourself what difference it makes in your life. JustJoe and I will continue to practice under Sifu Brown, and if the day comes that we're no longer satisfied with our practice, we'll leave. I doubt very much that we'll ever look back and conclude that anything said or done has invalidated the skills we've learned or the workouts we've gone through. In the end, it's all about the practice anyway.
  3. chingythingy is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    6/03/2007 10:26pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Genghis Bob
    Frankly, we judge our practice at the School of Chinese Martial Arts based on the results we get, which in the main are very, very good.
    What exactly are the results you get? Do you spar / fight with other competant fighters outside your school?

    Based on all that, I'm convinced that Sifu Brown has had a solid grounding in whatever arts he tells us he has a solid grounding in. I've seen the results of his experience, felt it upside my head at times (I'm one of the ones he feels free to pound away on, because he knows I can take it). Most importantly, I've learned from it, so I'm very satisfied with it. Knowing that Sensei Joe Hurtsellers, Hanshi Robert Bowles, Shihan Gene Dunn and Master Sonny Kim are satisfied with his credentials and his skills helps validate this feeling, but my assessment of Sifu Brown is not dependent on them.
    He has verifiable credentials from all of these individuals? I thought some of the problem was in that his credentials are not verifiable through those he claims to have trained with. Can you elaborate any on his rankings and under whom?

    You say all of this is conjecture. Yet you are closest. Offer up proof. Bullshido exists to fight BS artists. If your sifu is not, then it should be relatively easy to verify his claims to rank and training.

    For you to have knowledge of the guy, call everyone who questions him "conjecture", and do nothing to validate proof or not, saying "I'm satisfied with it", is not good enough. As a matter of fact, the way you talk about it really is very common to those who do have bullshido credentials. There's always some cover up, reasons why nothing can be verified, saying "well I know him", etc.

    So prove the credentials, or those are as unsubstantiated as anyone else's private claims that were edited out.
  4. CMA_James is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/26/2007 3:47pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Wow, what an old thread. I'm just curious about two things:

    1. If the credentials of this Sifu Brown person are what is important, why has no one gone to his school to challenge them? Clearly, since you claim that what is taught there is fake and so is he (must be, to be Bullshido), then any one of you studs should be able to walk in there and wipe the floor with such a lame, fake teacher!

    2. Related to #1: Why is it that only how well people fight with one another seems to matter to the people calling Bullshido in this thread? Or, put another way, why are you so aggressive?
  5. Grashnak is offline
    Grashnak's Avatar

    Old School DM

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    Posted On:
    6/26/2007 6:36pm

    supporting member
     Style: Nothing current

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by CMA_James
    2. Related to #1: Why is it that only how well people fight with one another seems to matter to the people calling Bullshido in this thread? Or, put another way, why are you so aggressive?
    Out of curiosity, how else exactly should one judge someone who claims to teach fighting?
    Jesus loves you. I think you're an asshole.
  6. chingythingy is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    6/26/2007 6:54pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by CMA_James
    Wow, what an old thread. I'm just curious about two things:

    1. If the credentials of this Sifu Brown person are what is important, why has no one gone to his school to challenge them? Clearly, since you claim that what is taught there is fake and so is he (must be, to be Bullshido), then any one of you studs should be able to walk in there and wipe the floor with such a lame, fake teacher!
    Umm, because this is Bullshido, where you don't need to storm dojos to raise questions about people's credentials. Discussions from people with legit credentials usually are really short.

    2. Related to #1: Why is it that only how well people fight with one another seems to matter to the people calling Bullshido in this thread? Or, put another way, why are you so aggressive?
    Umm, because "martial" in martial arts kind of implies fighting?
  7. goofus lee is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/06/2007 4:13am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: working and schooling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I know this is late in coming, but are we refering to possibly Italian people as "guidos" now? C'mon! I know Tony. He's actually a pretty good guy and not the knuckledragger he's painted to be by Dagon Akujin( Lovecraftian name there:). I'm also a student in the "dojo" as well. I like it alot.
  8. dasboot is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    7/12/2007 12:51pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: tai chi, qi gong

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    i have a number of issues and thoughts on the topic of Robert Brown. you will notice that i have left off Sifu. i am a former student at the School of Chinese Martial Arts and came to study there after pratice with a Sifu of 11 years. while Robert Brown has done the time in martial arts, he is disingenuous in/on a number of issues, topics and respects. much of it has been outlined on this thread.

    Please, everyone, stop calling him Sifu. he is not. Rob Brown does not represent himself in a true manner. while he teaches many fine lessons, they do not apply to him. he does not live and practice what he teaches. it is a major reason i could not continue practicing at the dojo. what is being taught at his school is largely fabricated by the man himself. this is why well over 35% of his students are no longer there. how he can live with himself, i know not. using a quote from music, "we're only in it for the money," may well be what motivates him.

    the lessons i left with, those taught by his former staff and students, are greatly appreciated. i find myself using them today in both my practice and in my life. it will be two years next month that i quit. i wish to thank those instructors and the students who were my partners during that time. each day we must take the good with the bad and make the most of it and move forward.
    Last edited by dasboot; 7/12/2007 7:02pm at .
  9. clutch30 is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    7/20/2007 11:08pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Yuchia Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Not about the money

    I am a student of Robert Browns. I have only been at the dojo for a little over a year. I am not posting to invite a war of words or a semantic battle. I am just going to say this: Regardless of whether or not I have researched all of his stories or hired a P.I. to give me a run down of his credentials, he has always shown me a great deal of warmth and interest and has helped me work on my technique with a sense of humor and a complete lack of ego. I suppose it will invite a battle if I say I simply don't care about his credentials, I care about his ability and knowledge. I like Sifu Brown personally and I enjoy his classes. I have trained in several different styles in several different states and have never enjoyed my practice as much as I enjoy it at this school. Maybe I should require a pedigree but I figure I am paying my money and getting my money's worth. I don't have Sifu Brown up on a pedestal and he has never tried climbing up on one around me. If you ever bother to actually meet the man you will see he is very genuine and takes a great interest in the people that train with him. Just my illiterate two cents.

    Mike Davis
    Last edited by clutch30; 7/20/2007 11:41pm at .
  10. GIJoe6186 is offline
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    An American Hero!

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    Posted On:
    7/21/2007 12:05am

    Business Class Supporting Membersupporting member
     TryKickboxingNow.com - Free Internet Marketing for Kickboxing Programs! Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Welcome to the forums and dont mind what 90% of the people post on here. ITs just annoying trolling sometimes.

    Anyways, I just find it hard to believe that you don't care about someones credentials. I know you said you don't, but thats because you know the guy and youve grown to like him.

    Theres two things that could happen. Either your instructor could be lying to you, not teaching you anything useful and just trying to scam you.
    OR.....
    What if he just did what he was taught and teaches that to you but he has never questioned what he studied and is now therefore teaching? What if he sucks (not saying he does, I dont know) and has no clue? What if what he teaches is not effective, but no one knows?

    Just things to ponder.
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